Counterpick Rules and Discussion

Netherlands momuuu
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Re: Counterpick Rules and Discussion

Post by momuuu »

Well darts uses alternating first picks, in a game where counterpicks are really advantegous. But they dont really use a neutral game 1. Actually alternating picks would be best if game 1 isnt a neutral game, and the one who picks first is decided by a neutral game thst doesnt count for score, but that sounds worse than winner picks first tbh.
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Re: Counterpick Rules and Discussion

Post by deleted_user0 »

Jerom wrote:Well darts uses alternating first picks, in a game where counterpicks are really advantegous. But they dont really use a neutral game 1. Actually alternating picks would be best if game 1 isnt a neutral game, and the one who picks first is decided by a neutral game thst doesnt count for score, but that sounds worse than winner picks first tbh.


you mean something like a cointoss? :roll:
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Re: Counterpick Rules and Discussion

Post by momuuu »

umeu wrote:
Jerom wrote:Well darts uses alternating first picks, in a game where counterpicks are really advantegous. But they dont really use a neutral game 1. Actually alternating picks would be best if game 1 isnt a neutral game, and the one who picks first is decided by a neutral game thst doesnt count for score, but that sounds worse than winner picks first tbh.


you mean something like a cointoss? :roll:

For darts its throwing in bulleye, some sports do go for cointoss (usually when it doesnt matter as much, football for example). I used to play table tennis with a game where you just throw the ball instead of serving, to decide who'd get to serve first. But for aoe it could just be a normal game (or time to micro, thatd surely make you happy).

But to be fair that just sounds silly.
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United States of America lesllamas
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Re: Counterpick Rules and Discussion

Post by lesllamas »

91 wrote:I like this system you suggest.

And lets be honest. If they use it in smash, that's the best way there is :D


Haha, part of what makes this frustrating is that the smash community has been debating tournament rulesets since 2003, and all the same arguments have been brought up, but it was settled a long time ago that loser's counterpick is simply a foolproof system that eliminates edge cases of unfair sets. It simply guarantees that in a set of any length, a player will not lose a set after having been at any sort of disadvantage, without granting the set's loser additional resources or counterpicks that they otherwise would not have had.
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New Zealand zoom
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Re: Counterpick Rules and Discussion

Post by zoom »

Well, FWIW Super-Smash: Melee is not Age of Empires 3...
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Tuvalu gibson
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Re: Counterpick Rules and Discussion

Post by gibson »

Jerom wrote: some sports do go for cointoss (usually when it doesnt matter as much, football for example)
If you're talking about American football this is not at all the case. Just recently a NFL team lost a game after picking something retarded after they won the coin toss. It would essentially be like picking japan after your opponent has picked aztec.
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Re: Counterpick Rules and Discussion

Post by lesllamas »

zoom wrote:Well, FWIW Super-Smash: Melee is not Age of Empires 3...


Of course not, which is why when GS brought up civ rules and the reset, I acknowledged it as a point that should be taken into account. But other than that, the way sets work is basically the same across most tournaments or sports. In most major sports, for example, a series of 5 or 7 games is played where the team with the better seed gets 1 extra home game, and always has the final game at home. The fact that hockey, baseball, and basketball are different sports doesn't change the fact that the way they organize sets should be pretty much the same.
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Re: Counterpick Rules and Discussion

Post by lesllamas »

gibson wrote:
Jerom wrote: some sports do go for cointoss (usually when it doesnt matter as much, football for example)
If you're talking about American football this is not at all the case. Just recently a NFL team lost a game after picking something retarded after they won the coin toss. It would essentially be like picking japan after your opponent has picked aztec.


Pretty sure he's talking about soccer, though also coin tosses for american football at the beginning of games (not overtime) don't matter a whole lot usually.
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Tuvalu gibson
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Re: Counterpick Rules and Discussion

Post by gibson »

lesllamas wrote:
gibson wrote:
Jerom wrote: some sports do go for cointoss (usually when it doesnt matter as much, football for example)
If you're talking about American football this is not at all the case. Just recently a NFL team lost a game after picking something retarded after they won the coin toss. It would essentially be like picking japan after your opponent has picked aztec.


Pretty sure he's talking about soccer, though also coin tosses for american football at the beginning of games (not overtime) don't matter a whole lot usually.

It was overtime
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United States of America lesllamas
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Re: Counterpick Rules and Discussion

Post by lesllamas »

Right, I know the pats v jets game you're referring to. Jerom was talking about a coin toss to decide initial possession, not to decide possession in an overtime period.
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Re: Counterpick Rules and Discussion

Post by 91 »

zoom wrote:Well, FWIW Super-Smash: Melee is not Age of Empires 3...


True, but it is an extremely competitive community, and counterpicks matter
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New Zealand zoom
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Re: Counterpick Rules and Discussion

Post by zoom »

I think it would be nice to try the winner's-pick format next major tournament, to see it in practice as well as people's reaction to it.

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