Event Information thread

[iNcog]

Match rules | Current Standings | Clan Section | Stream Schedule



ESOC’s Strong World

1. Overview:

Welcome to ESOC’s Strong World, a community-oriented team event. This event is hosted on the ESOC Patch and the goal is to find out which nation has the best players in AoE3!

This format is a sort of "ladder" or "league" where clans challenge in each to a match. The theme of the league is to be the strongest team out there and that includes both 1v1 skills and team play. This event is closer to playing for rank rather than an actual tournament, until the top 4 teams are found. Those teams then move on to S Class to crown a winner.

Scheduling and participation are purposely lax. This is intended to be a fun event to partake in. Rather than have a strict schedule to follow, clans are able to play at their own pace. This allows for easier scheduling and participation.


2. Ranking:

2.1 - Clans are divided into 2 tiers. The first tier is the "Challenger tier" and the second tier is "S Class". All clans start in the Challenger tier with 0 points. Upon reaching 12 points, clans are promoted to Premier.

- Winning a match adds 3 points to the winner's amount.
- Losing a match detracts 2 points from the loser’s amount.

2.2 - If a clan drops down to 0 points in Challenger, they are not eliminated from the tournament.

2.3 - Clans may challenge clans which are in S Class and play out the games normally. The clan in S Class will not receive or lose any points. The clan in Challenger is still able to lose 2 points, however winning nets a 4 point gain.

2.4 - An excel spreadsheet will keep track of scores on the admin’s side. The admin will keep a scoreboard up to date as well. It can be viewed here: CLICK

2.5 - The first four clans to obtain 12 points will qualify for S Class. This means that there is a time-constraint on the event and that the more active clans will have a much better chance of qualifying.

2.6 - In the event where two clans are poised to take the last slot for S Class (two clans within 3 points, or 1 win), all other challenges will be voided for those clans. The two clans will play a match in order to determine who obtains the final slot.


3. Challenging:

3.1 - For two clans to play a match, one clan must challenge the other. The other clan may accept the challenge or they can dodge. If the challenge is accepted, then a match is played between the two clans. If a clan dodges the match, then they must pay 1 point to the challenger. To get a dodge accounted for, clans must post in the results thread: CLICK

3.2 - Once the challenge is accepted, the two clans must schedule their match together. The clan with the lower amount of points will decide the game mode (1v1, 2v2 or 3v3), as well as the starting map. If both clans have the same amount of points, then the challenged clan will decide the game mode. Clans will select their players after the game mode has been decided. Please note that 2 to 3 players are required to play out a match.

3.3 - Scheduling is purposely lax. Clans may choose for themselves when they want to play. Note however that the more active a clan is, the better it will do in the league. Challenges must still be responded to. Please use GMT when scheduling to avoid confusion, it's already not very easy to schedule given the large amount of people involved, so try to make things easier.

3.4 - Challenges must be answered within 5 days (either agree to the challenge or dodge). Failure to answer to a challenge in the correct amount of time entails a 2 point penalty (to be paid to the Challenger). Subsequently, matches must be played out within 9 days of the challenge being accepted.

3.5 - A clan may challenge as many other clans as they want at the same time. Clans must, however, be able to play out all the matches they try to set up, if all challenged clans accept. However, there is a limit to the dodge mechanic (point 3.11). For clans which are accepting multiple challenges, be aware that they should be given time to play out all challenges they accept, in the order in which they were accepted (so a sort of queue forms). Only the first two in queue are formally challengers, meaning that those matches need to be played out (challenge/dodge applies here). Otherwise, the rest of the clans in queue are informal challenges (friendly agreement to play a match in the future).

3.6 - Clans may challenge clans in S Class, though S Class clans may elect not to play if they want (dodge is free).

3.7 - Clans may not challenge another clan twice in a row.

3.9 - Clans which have received a penalty for un-played matches or unanswered challenges may not be challenged. This rule is lifted once a penalized clan challenges another clan and plays out the match. These clans are put on "the bench".

3.10 - Players may challenge other players individually. If the challenged clan accepts, they send out a player for a 1v1 match, best of three (point 4.4). If the challenger does not want to play the player which has been sent out, he may call off his challenge without penalty. The winner of this match earns 1 point for their clan. Losing the match does not detract any points. In the case of a dodge, no points are awarded or detracted to either clan. In this format, only 2 people are required to schedule. This is a way to allow anyone to try to earn points for their clan. 5 days to dodge or accept, 9 days to play out the match.

3.11 - In order to prevent the abuse of the dodge mechanic, a clan may not obtain two points in a row using the dodge mechanic. In other words, if [CLAN A] has just been dodged and earned 1 point from it, then dodging [CLAN A] is free of charge until [CLAN A] has actually played a match. However if [CLAN B] has just dodged [CLAN A], then [CLAN B] must still pay a point to dodge [CLAN C].

3.12 - A clan may challenge a clan which has previously dodged them, but only after the dodging clan has played out a match.

3.13 - Clans may not challenge clans which they have already defeated. This is reset once a clan has played every other clan.


4. Matches:

4.1 - The games will be 1v1, 2v2 or 3v3 supremacy games. All games must be of the same type for a given match.

4.2 - Clan Matches - 1v1 Rules:
- Match is a best of five (Bo5).
- Each team is allowed to veto 3 different maps, before the match starts.
- Clans send out three players for the match.

In chronological order:
- The first map will be decided on during scheduling, chosen from the map pool. The clan with the lower amount of points (or the challenged clan, in case of a tie) chooses the first map.
- Each clan sends out a player for the first map. The loser is eliminated from the match.
- The winner-clan selects their next player.
- The loser-clan picks the next map and sends out their next player. *
- The winner-clan then picks their civilization first.
- A player may play at most 2 games per match, unless that player is the last man standing.
- Civilizations may only be played once for each CLAN. **
- Maps may only be played once.
- All games must be recorded and posted for the results to count.
- In the 1v1 format, matches may be played out over the course of several days in the case of difficulties scheduling for all 6 players.

Map pool: Please use the 1v1 map set (point 4.6).

* The player must be sent out before the winner picks their civ.

** e.g. if [Clan A] has had a player play France on map 1, then France can no longer be played by ANY OTHER player in [Clan A] for the duration of the match.

4.3 - Clan Matches - Team Rules:
- Match is a best of three (Bo3).
- Each team is allowed to veto 3 different maps, before the match starts.
- Clans send out two or three players for the match.

In chronological order:
- The first map will be decided on during scheduling, chosen from the map pool. The clan with the lower amount of points (or the challenged clan, in case of a tie) chooses the first map.
- Clans send out two or three players for the match.
- The losers pick the next map.
- The winners pick their civilization set first (combination of two or three civs).
- Civilizations may only be played once for each PLAYER.
- Maps may only be played once.
- All games must be recorded and posted for the results to count.

Map pool: Please use the Team map set (point 4.6).

4.4 - Player Matches - 1v1 Rules:
- Match is a best of three (Bo3).
- Refers to point 3.10.
- Each player is allowed to veto 3 different maps, before the match starts.

In chronological order:
- The player with the lower 1v1 elorating chooses the first map.
- The loser picks the next map.
- The winner picks their civilization first.
- Civilizations may only be played once for each player.
- Maps may only be played once.
- All games must be recorded and posted for the results to count.

Map pool: Please use the 1v1 map set (point 4.6).

4.5 - Matches will be played on the most up-to-date version of the ESOC patch.

4.6 - These are the map pools which are to be used in 1v1 and Team games respectively. Exceptionally, other maps outside of these pools may be played, but only as long as all parties involved agree to it.
1v1 Maps:[spoiler=1v1 Maps]EP ESOC Adirondacks
EP ESOC Arizona
EP ESOC Arkansas
EP ESOC Baja California
EP ESOC Bengal
EP ESOC Bonnie Springs EP
EP ESOC Cascade range
EP ESOC Colorado
EP ESOC High plains
EP ESOC Hudson Bay
EP ESOC Indonesia
EP ESOC Kamchatka
EP ESOC Klondike
EP ESOC Manchac
EP ESOC Manchuria
EP ESOC Mendocino
EP ESOC Pampas Sierras
EP ESOC Tassili
EP ESOC Tibet
EP Mongolia
EP New England
EP Painted Desert
EP Patagonia
EP Siberia
EP Yukon
EP Andes
EP Deccan[/spoiler]
Team Maps:[spoiler=Team Maps]EP ESOC Adirondacks
EP ESOC Arizona
EP ESOC Arkansas
EP ESOC Baja California
EP ESOC Bengal
EP ESOC Cascade range
EP ESOC Colorado
EP ESOC High Plains
EP ESOC Hudson Bay
EP ESOC Indonesia
EP ESOC Kamchatka
EP ESOC Klondike
EP ESOC Manchac
EP ESOC Manchuria
EP ESOC Mendocino
EP ESOC Pampas Sierras
EP ESOC Tassili
EP Saguenay
EP Silk Road
EP Siberia
EP Himalayas
EP Himalayas Upper
EP Painted Desert
EP Andes
EP Deccan
EP Yellow River Dry[/spoiler]

4.7 - In the case where competitive conditions are degraded during a match (e.g. excessive lagging, OOS, dropping, etc.), clans may appeal to @iNcog

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for an admin decision. Clans will be required to provide evidence, as well as some arguments as to how the conditions of the match were degraded and why that was the case. "Evidence" may include screen-shots with the in-game timer and the computer's clock, for example. The in-game sitution will also be taken into account.

Due to the online nature of the event, it will be difficult to judge the situation objectively. Tournament staff will review the situation and also reach out to third-parties in order to assess the situation as fairly and as objectively as possible. The two most probable outcomes are either:
- The map (only one game) is played again in a different (or refreshed) setting, in the case where difficulties arose whilst the match was relatively even. This may include swapping around players, playing on a different service, removing streamers or observers, players agreeing to lower graphic settings or set up optimal network conditions, etc.
- An admin win is attributed to the clan which clearly had the upper-hand in the game, if they were not the source of the degradation.

Clans and / or players are allowed to sort out the situation amongst themselves if they so desire and all parties involved are fine with it. This includes coin-flips (ok- just becase it's not obvious, this is a joke).


5. Other rules:

5.1 - Players may only play for one clan at a time. You may leave a clan during the event but you may not play for another clan after having left your first one, unless @iNcog

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specifically agrees to it.

5.2 - There will be very little tolerance for smurfing in this tournament. Play on your main account and make sure you’re actually in the clan you’re playing for. I reserve the right to (arbitrarily) kick players or clans from the event if they’re causing more trouble than anything else. Please don’t make me do this. In a similar vein, don’t sign up troll clans (i.e. naming your clan after someone else to annoy them). Players may be asked to post on a forum account so as to check IPs.

5.3 - Rules are subject to change during the actual event if flaws and / or loopholes are found. This is a for-fun, community-driven event. The rules are a bit non-standard and so may require some adjusting. This is much less of a competitive cash tournament, so rules may be amended to take out less fun aspects of the league, make the event run more smoothly or possibly even add more fun to it.

5.4 - The go-to staff member to talk to for this event is me, @iNcog

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. PM me on the forums rather than whispering me on ESO (unless it's to tell me you sent me a PM). I also reserve the right to bend or amend rules as I see fit, to make the event work more smoothly. I will try to do this as little as possible and also try to be fair.

5.5 - Match-fixing in any form will obviously be frowned upon, with penalties to those guilty of doing so.

5.6 - Players may sign up as a pre-formed team or they may sign up individually, where they will be placed in an existing team. The default placement will be based on nationality but players may request to join other teams if they would prefer.


6. S Class:

6.1 - Only 4 clans may qualify for S class. Once those clans have qualified, they will participate in an actual tournament format to determine the winner of Strong World.

6.2 - S Class Round-Robin: All 4 clans play in a round-robin group; a 1v1 round is played, then a Team round. That entails 12 matches in total. The format used in the Round Robin stage is similar to the format used in Challenger, only matches are now Bo7 for the 1v1 format and Bo5 for the team format.

In this stage, winning games, whether 1v1 or Team, acquires points. 3 points are earned for a win in 1v1 and 4 points are earned for a win in team. Points are used for seeding in the Bracket Stage. This round is highly important, as winning this round sets up the team for the easiest road to winning in the Bracket Stage.


If team A vs team B results in 4-3 for the 1v1 match, team A will earn 12 points and team B will earn 9 points.

If team A vs team B results in 3-2 for the team match, team A will earn 12 points and team B will earn 8 points.

Please note that in the bracket stage, if a given match is a BO5, then the match still ends if the score is 3-0 (respectively, a BO7 ends if the score is at 4-0). This means that winning the series outright may prevent the other team from acquiring points. Every match matters.

6.3.1 - Clan Matches - 1v1 Rules:
- Match is a best of seven (Bo7).
- Each team is allowed to veto 3 different maps, before the match starts.
- Clans send out all their players for the match.

In chronological order:
- The first map will be decided on during scheduling, chosen from the map pool. Clans will agree to the first map.
- Each clan sends out a player for the first map. The loser is put on the bench and cannot play until further notice.
- The winner-clan selects their next player.
- The loser-clan picks the next map and sends out their next player. *
- The winner-clan then picks their civilization first.
- A player may play at most 2 games per match, they are then put on the bench and cannot play until further notice.
- Once a clan is 1 map away from losing the match, they may send out any player without restriction, including those on the bench.
- Civilizations may only be played once for each CLAN. **
- Maps may only be played once.
- All games must be recorded and posted for the results to count.

Map pool: Please use the 1v1 map set (point 4.6).

Example :


* The player must be sent out before the winner picks their civ.

** e.g. if [Clan A] has had a player play France on map 1, then France can no longer be played by ANY OTHER player in [Clan A] for the duration of the match.

6.3.2 - Clan Matches - Team Rules:
- Match is a best of five (Bo5).
- The first game is a 2v2, games then alternate between 2v2 and 3v3.
- Each team is allowed to veto 3 different maps, before the match starts.
- Clans send out all their players for the match.

In chronological order:
- The first map will be decided on during scheduling, chosen from the map pool. Clans will agree to a starting map.
- Clans send out two or three players for the match; any player may be fielded at any time.
- The losers pick the next map.
- The winners pick their civilization set first (combination of two or three civs).
- Civilizations may only be played once for each PLAYER.
- Maps may only be played once.
- All games must be recorded and posted for the results to count.

Map pool: Please use the Team map set (point 4.6).

6.4 - S Class Bracket Stage: This is where the winner is crowned. The following bracket will be used, with Team 4 having the lowest seed from the Round-Robin stage and Team 1 having the highest seed:



In this round, a special hybrid format will be used for each match, with 1v1 and team games being intertwined. More details on that format will be posted later.

6.5 - The winner of the S Class Bracket Stage wins the event!


7. Prize pool:

7.1 - In addition to the pride of the win and bragging rights over the other nations, the cash prize pool is set to start at 100$, any donations made during the event will go to grow the pool. The winning team will take the majority of the prize pool, however second place will receive some money as well. More details about specific payouts will be revealed once code S is set.


Feel free to ask questions in this thread if anything is unclear.

FAQ:

Q: Individual challenges?

A: The idea is that players are able to play for their clans at an individual level. You'll notice that is this is a secondary aspect of Strong World, as individual matches only take place if both parties agree to it. This means that these matches will be mostly fair ones; but they won't have a huge influence on the standings. If a clan really wants to get rank, they must do so collectively.

Q: I'm confused by the number of possible formats in Challenger Tier.

A: Well, there are three possible formats in Challenger. The first one is a team-based 1v1 format (3 people needed on each team). The second one is a team-based 2v2 or 3v3 format (2 to 3 people needed on each team). The last one is a 1v1 between two players. The last format which is 1v1 between two players, is a small, bonus format.

Q: Point 3.11 ?

A: It was added so as to avoid clans from abusing the dodge mechanic, since the goal of Strong World is to actually play games.

Q: -

A: -


Change log:

April 13th :
Rules updated in regard to the following topics:
- Map sets and veto mechanics (4.4, 4.5, 4.6, 6.3.1, 6.3.2),
- Competitive settings being degraded (4.7),
- Event of a potential tie in Challenger for the final S Class spot (2.6),
- Updates on the S Class format (6),
- Loop-hole regarding match-fixing and feeding other clans intentionally (5.5),
- General proof-reading and other cool things,

March 30th :
Point 3.13 added so that clans are required to play different clans, instead of constantly playing the same clans over and over.

March 29th :
Point 3.12 added. Some proof-reading done to get rid of typos.

March 27th :
Point 3.5 modified, to allow clans to challenge lots of different clans.
Added point 3.11, so as to avoid to avoid one clan abusing the dodge mechanic due to point 3.5 getting changed.

March 24th :
Updated FAQ for clarity.

March 22nd :
Added S class format and a bunch of other stuff.

[thebritish]

Will there be ELO based system ,so Majors wont be able to challenge 2-nd liets and get free points?

[Mr_Bramboy]

Will there be ELO based system ,so Majors wont be able to challenge 2-nd liets and get free points?

You decide yourself who in your clan is going to play. So to answer your question: Not really; a clan consisting of majors can challenge a clan consisting of 2nd lieuts. But they cannot specifically challenge the 2nd lieuts instead of the majors in that same clan.

[krichk]

These rules were perfect for a clan tournament (with people of the same level in a clan) but I think it could be slightly improved for a nations tournament :
1) I think high level matchs should bring more points to a team. It'd be a shame if I lost the points diarouga won against Mitoe because I lost against thebritish.
2) there should be a rule that incites people to play balanced matchs. Otherwise there will be no point in letting noobs play team games. And noobs will never dare challenging another clan for a 1v1 because they don't want their opponent to be 10 pr higher.
But apart from that rules are great

Pleaz notice me @iNcog

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[momuuu]

I personally would be happy if it'd be a leagueformat thats a BO5 including:
- Three 1v1 with three different players
- a 2v2
- a 3v3
If only two players are available, maybe its possible to deviate to a format with:
- Two 1v1s
- Three 2v2s

[iNcog]

I personally would be happy if it'd be a leagueformat thats a BO5 including:
- Three 1v1 with three different players
- a 2v2
- a 3v3
If only two players are available, maybe its possible to deviate to a format with:
- Two 1v1s
- Three 2v2s

it's not a bad idea

i have an idea where this can be implemented

[iNcog]

These rules were perfect for a clan tournament (with people of the same level in a clan) but I think it could be slightly improved for a nations tournament :
1) I think high level matchs should bring more points to a team. It'd be a shame if I lost the points diarouga won against Mitoe because I lost against thebritish.
2) there should be a rule that incites people to play balanced matchs. Otherwise there will be no point in letting noobs play team games. And noobs will never dare challenging another clan for a 1v1 because they don't want their opponent to be 10 pr higher.
But apart from that rules are great

Pleaz notice me @iNcog

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hi

hmm those are some good points

at the end of the day though, this is a for fun event, diarouga is on fire at the moment and should be able to cover you easily.

for the sake of simplicity, i won't impose the restrictions just yet, but if i think of a good way to implement it, it'll go through. you can try to challenge people in the 1v1 format if you want to earn points for france in a risk free way:

3.10 - Players may challenge other clans individually. If the challenged clan accepts, they send out a player for a 1v1 match, best of three (point 4.3). If the challenger does not want to play the player which has been sent out, he may call off his challenge without penalty. The winner of this match earns 1 point for their clan. Losing the match does not detract any points. In the case of a dodge, no points are awarded or detracted to either clan. 5 days to dodge or accept, 9 days to play out the match.

[krichk]

Seems perfect, didn't notice a defeat in 1v1 did not make you lose points!

[_DB_]

what is the limit of elo or pr between which players are able to play 1v1 or team?

I assume it is within 100 elo right?

[iNcog]

what is the limit of elo or pr between which players are able to play 1v1 or team?

I assume it is within 100 elo right?

there is no limit. hmm

the name of the game is that strong world allows players to play anyone they want. the winner gains points, but the loser is not knocked out of the tournament either. the loser lives on to fight another day, always

so lower level players can play top players if they want, or play people their own skill level. you can dodge the top level players if they challenge, but top level players still need some compensation for being good (or else no one would play them)

[iNcog]

By the way, rules will soon be updated. Basically they're re-written a little for clarity for some things. S Class format is added.

REMEMBER THAT only 4 teams are going to qualify for S Class! The first 4 teams to obtain 12 points qualify!

[_DB_]

what is the limit of elo or pr between which players are able to play 1v1 or team?

I assume it is within 100 elo right?

there is no limit. hmm

the name of the game is that strong world allows players to play anyone they want. the winner gains points, but the loser is not knocked out of the tournament either. the loser lives on to fight another day, always

so lower level players can play top players if they want, or play people their own skill level. you can dodge the top level players if they challenge, but top level players still need some compensation for being good (or else no one would play them)

Okk thnx.

[Veni_Vidi_Vici_W]

should be a link to the results of SW on homepage or so imo

rules and info looks good, lets get this going 33!

[iNcog]

Agreed, that would be nice

Unfortunately I'm not sure who is capable of actually making changes on the site itself now that 91 and musketeer are gone. Afaik they were the only two web devs. maybe @Buckethead

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?

But I'll try to figure something out. Possibly a side-bar link, need to get an admin to look into that.

Either way, congratulations to France for taking the first win of strong world!

[iNcog]

Rules have been updated slightly, check it out if you want (check change log)

[EAGLEMUT]

@iNcog

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Sorry, but I don't really understand the new rule 3.11, like, honestly I don't think I fully understand any of the sentences there. Can you clarify further?

dodging [CLAN A] is free of charge

Free of charge implies free for both teams? So, if for example France gets dodged, everyone else can dodge them infinitely for free, never challenge them and France will literally never get to play another match for the entirety of the event? This seems super weird..

until [CLAN A] has actually played a match

Does this mean any match, or only a match where [CLAN A] is the challenger? Either way, my above concern stands.

However if [CLAN B] has just dodged [CLAN A], then it must still pay a point to dodge [CLAN C].

I'm not sure what this means, maybe it's trying to address the issue? Does this mean that if you dodged the last challenge you're going to lose points for your next dodge regardless of the challenger's status (unless it's the same challenger)? I came to that conclusion after rethinking it a few times.. If I'm correct here, this part does help a bit, but probably not enough.

Overall I think the wording leaves a lot for interpretation and should be made more clear.. Maybe it would make more sense to only stop giving points to the challenger, while still detracting points from the dodger? Maybe that's even what you meant? Plz halp, so confused!

[iNcog]

Sorry about that, sometimes I make up these rules on the fly due to a loophole which I hadn't thought of which someone pointed out to me. I close the loophole with an idea and then just word it poorly. I'll try to rewrite it soon.

Basically imagine that I'm France and that I challenge 4 clans: A, B, C & D. Let's say that Clan A dodges us. They'll pay us a point.

Now, imagine that B & C also dodge. They don't need to pay the dodge fee. It's free for a clan to dodge France (since the last point they earned was through a dodge) UNTIL France plays a match. Then it's reset.



The reasoning behind this strange rule is that a clan can go out and challenge EVERY OTHER clan if they want to. If every single dodge had to be taken into account (as you can see, there are a lot of unanswered challenge) then too many points would come from dodging.

Now, if France is the clan which is doing the dodging, then they need to pay up for every dodge. If France dodges India, then they need to pay a point. If they then ALSO dodge Sweden, then they need also pay a point.

It's a little lopsided and indeed, with these rules it's possible to "boycott" a clan. If that happens, then I'll step in with dictator rights and allow that clan the right to play as many matches as other clans. I don't really see that realistically happening, though.

[EAGLEMUT]

Thanks for clarifying! I think I understand it now, but you might be underestimating the boycott issue, since I already kind of see it happening to France right now. Judging from the result thread, everyone just auto-dodges them because they don't want to face Kynesie. In my opinion the dodger should always lose a point, it simplifies the rules and at the same time discourages boycotting. As the challenged team in the current system it also seems a bit complicated to keep track of when can I dodge without a point loss and when not.. guess I'd have to dig it up in the results thread every time.

So my idea is this simplification:
A clan may not obtain two points in a row using the dodge mechanic. Although the challenging clan will cease to gain points, 1 point will still be removed from the dodging clan(s) as usual.

[Veni_Vidi_Vici_W]

Thanks for clarifying! I think I understand it now, but you might be underestimating the boycott issue, since I already kind of see it happening to France right now. Judging from the result thread, everyone just auto-dodges them because they don't want to face Kynesie because they dont want to play in lagg. In my opinion the dodger should always lose a point, it simplifies the rules and at the same time discourages boycotting. As the challenged team in the current system it also seems a bit complicated to keep track of when can I dodge without a point loss and when not.. guess I'd have to dig it up in the results thread every time.

I fixed that for you, np.
Im happy to play non-lagging players of France, so can still be 2/2 for example with dia/kaiser or others. Im pretty sure KingofOsmane etc will also.
A player who cant get his shit in order should not play (ruin) a tournament, we dont want the same that happened in Winter right? I also wont participate in a car rally where my car has no proper breaks? Its an annoyance to the other participants.

[EAGLEMUT]

Thanks for clarifying! I think I understand it now, but you might be underestimating the boycott issue, since I already kind of see it happening to France right now. Judging from the result thread, everyone just auto-dodges them because they don't want to face Kynesie because they dont want to play in lagg. In my opinion the dodger should always lose a point, it simplifies the rules and at the same time discourages boycotting. As the challenged team in the current system it also seems a bit complicated to keep track of when can I dodge without a point loss and when not.. guess I'd have to dig it up in the results thread every time.

I fixed that for you, np.
Im happy to play non-lagging players of France, so can still be 2/2 for example with dia/kaiser or others. Im pretty sure KingofOsmane etc will also.
A player who cant get his shit in order should not play (ruin) a tournament, we dont want the same that happened in Winter right? I also wont participate in a car rally where my car has no proper breaks? Its an annoyance to the other participants.

I'm not really in disagreement, but whatever the reason, I only used this as an example of a hole in the rules that could be abused. I do acknowledge Kynesie is another problem on his own and a tough one to solve.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Vs Swede we did a lag test before playing, it didn't lag, and then it was sometimes a bit laggy but less than a normal team game.
I know Veni has an issue with lag but I think most people just don't want to play vs walls (I understand that, that's not really funny), in which case you just dodge and don't bring lame excuses.

[zoom]

The lag wasn't bad at all in general, despite being 6p and featuring Zuta. I guess Kynesie could have built a wall or two less though...

[Hazza54321]

the thing is 8 layer of walls isnt fun for any gametype and was even more boring to watch, especially as the swes had interesting strats, france just made it incredibly boring

[Veni_Vidi_Vici_W]

Vs Swede we did a lag test before playing, it didn't lag, and then it was sometimes a bit laggy but less than a normal team game.
I know Veni has an issue with lag but I think most people just don't want to play vs walls (I understand that, that's not really funny), in which case you just dodge and don't bring lame excuses.

First of all, im glad you are being honest here. It probably starts off fine, but lagg always happens later, with more units on the field.
Secondly, vs Sweden you didnt play the 'laggier' maps (bigger and/or water), which does matter also.
Third, ye I hate lagg, and that is something that goes vs everyone. If people lagg too much in teamgames they either fix or i dont play it anymore its so annoying. You know that.
Fourth, this is about a tournament, where it will in the end matter more than just a casual teamgame.
Fifth, "way less lagg than a normal teamgame" i dont agree with. Ive played enough normal teamgames with no or almost no lagg. That was not comparable to the lagg with Kynesie (or Sonu-Jeffrey from India for example same thing same annoyance i stopped playing with also).
Sixth, people used to playing in lagg environment ofc have less issues since they are used to the delay. Other people, such as me in this case, Kaiser, etc, or even H20 who talked about this long time ago, will get thrown off easier because the 'feeling' is just different. It would seem sad to me that people who have their stuff in order should suffer from the issues of people who dont. Not to mention that ofc lagg plays nicely into a wall + yumi or so behind it.
Seventh, yes i dont like walls ofc, tbh i dont like any walls but that is subjective and not part of my argument. You also wall Diarouga, as you clearly showed already in teamgames and here vs Sweden, yet i said we can play you and Kaiser if you guys are not lagging, simple.

the thing is 8 layer of walls isnt fun for any gametype and was even more boring to watch, especially as the swes had interesting strats, france just made it incredibly boring

While i totally agree, and the Swedes did come up with something interesting yes, it is a tournament after all so people should do what they want and think is best i guess...

[zoom]

the thing is 8 layer of walls isnt fun for any gametype and was even more boring to watch, especially as the swes had interesting strats, france just made it incredibly boring

I don't think it's fair to complain about people using every legitimate means they have to win. If walls are a gameplay or balance issue then you could nerf them. For example, Gates shouldn't have double hitpoints, and walls are still exceedingly cheap. Perhaps the obstruction-radius of walls could be increased as well so that they occupy more space.