EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

User avatar
Canada Warno
Dragoon
Donator 08
Posts: 426
Joined: Jul 2, 2016
ESO: Warno

EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

Post by Warno »

Just wondering if anyone is testing out the new Iro change?
From what I can tell it seems like difference from RE is 200 food instead of 200 wood.

Rarely see anyone playing them - Is there just a stigma with playing them now because they were so OP before?
Seems like they could be a little underrated.
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

Post by deleted_user »

Seem like a slightly worse version of Russia.
User avatar
Tuvalu gibson
Ninja
ECL Reigning Champs
Posts: 13597
Joined: May 4, 2015
Location: USA

Re: EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

Post by gibson »

deleted_user wrote:Seem like a slightly worse version of Russia.
exactly! :chinese: :santa: :maniac:
User avatar
Canada forgrin
Howdah
Posts: 1873
Joined: Apr 27, 2015
ESO: Forgrin

Re: EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

Post by forgrin »

They'll still be same ol' EP Iro for the most part. It could help them TP or market start more reliably, but probably unlikely to cut a vill unless you get food crate start.
https://www.twitch.tv/forgin14

"WTF WHERE ARE MY 10 FALCS" - AraGun_OP
No Flag tedere12
Jaeger
Posts: 3449
Joined: Jun 8, 2015

Re: EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

Post by tedere12 »

Pretty sure diarouga said in one of his streams that EP iro are really good. Sending 4 kanya and following with economic greed seems to be the reason why. So they are pretty much like russia, a bit slower but with villager cards, I think
User avatar
China fei123456
Jaeger
Posts: 3283
Joined: Apr 23, 2015
ESO: fei123456
Location: Alderaan

Re: EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

  • Quote

Post by fei123456 »

Iro can do a 9v fast age up in current meta. Send unit for insane fast rush, or 5v4v for good eco.
0.84Ă—(25Ă—5+25Ă—6+25Ă—7+25Ă—8)=543
So theoratically, by the time your 9th vill come out you will have 543 food: you can click age up soon. And if you have extra 100f start it will be 643. Herding may slow it down a bit, but food treasures can boost it too.
Generally you can reach age 2 BEFORE 3:00, with 9v, AND 2 travois (Stable+warhut). You can send 5v4v in a row for great eco, or 600w first for tpboom, or just unit shipments: think about 4 kanya in your base at 4:00.

EDIT:
With 400f start iro can really do something different now. For example, chop 150w/200w for TP/market, and still age up in time. You can either go semiff, or just play colonial: it's a bit slower than RE, but you've better eco.
And even more: chop 350w, TP+market, age up 17p (with wise woman), send 5v and FF directly!
User avatar
Canada Mitoe
Advanced Theory Craftsman
Posts: 5486
Joined: Aug 23, 2015
ESO: Mitoe
GameRanger ID: 346407

Re: EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

Post by Mitoe »

I've been playing them a bit. They seem OK. Hard to say from the few games I've had time to play if they're top tier. Definitely playable now, at least.
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

Post by deleted_user »

gibson wrote:
deleted_user wrote:Seem like a slightly worse version of Russia.
exactly! :chinese: :santa: :maniac:

I can't tell if I'm being patronized. It's like talking with zoi. :chinese: :chinese: :chinese:
User avatar
Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 10459
Joined: Mar 25, 2015
ESO: Pezet

Re: EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

Post by pecelot »

User avatar
United States of America __Uhlan__
Dragoon
Posts: 444
Joined: Oct 28, 2016
ESO: __UhLaN__
Location: USA

Re: EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

Post by __Uhlan__ »

deleted_user wrote:
gibson wrote:
deleted_user wrote:Seem like a slightly worse version of Russia.
exactly! :chinese: :santa: :maniac:

I can't tell if I'm being patronized. It's like talking with zoi. :chinese: :chinese: :chinese:


I don't think so, they seem exactly like a worse version of Russia decides they have a much better age 3 imo but slower age 2.
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

Re: EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

Post by deleted_user0 »

lol wtf iro is nothing like russia...
User avatar
United States of America __Uhlan__
Dragoon
Posts: 444
Joined: Oct 28, 2016
ESO: __UhLaN__
Location: USA

Re: EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

Post by __Uhlan__ »

umeu wrote:lol wtf iro is nothing like russia...


whatttt they have similar ages 2 wdym? I mean both have good cav shipment, both have good upgrades in age 2, both normally forward fb. I see a lot in common :hmm:
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

Re: EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

  • Quote

Post by deleted_user0 »

Iro's cav is subpar, while cossack, specially when upgraded is one of the best cav units in the game imo. Russian units are cost effective because they are cheap. Iro units are actually a bit too expensive for their stats, but the warchief aura pushes them over an edge. Iro's eco gradually get's worse as the game goes on, while russia's eco gradually gets better. Iro has one of the best skirmisher units in age3, and musket riders under aura are quite beefy, making them more useful than dragoons in many cases, specially now that dragoons only have 20% RR. Iro thus has on of the best hit and run compositions in age3, but no cannons. While russia has one of the worst hit and run compositions, but cannons. Iro relies to win their fights on the quality of their infantry units, while russia relies to win it on the quantity.

They are really not much alike imo. The civ that's closest to iro in feel and mechanics is french imo. Iro are a more agressive but less economical version of french. With better infantry but worse cavalry. But all in all iro is too different to really compare to any euro civ. And of the TWC civs, imo the civ that's most like russia is aztecs. but again its probably too different to really be compared to anything.
User avatar
United States of America Darwin_
Howdah
Posts: 1446
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
Location: Boston

Re: EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

Post by Darwin_ »

I don't see how Kanya are subpar. They are almost as good as a huss (+art multiplier) in warchief aura. Iro also has 3 upgrade cards for infantry in age 2, making aenna and tomahawks essentaily fortress-equivalent in age 2. Aenna are wicked efficient, same with Kanya, and iro has a 3 unit composition in age 2 that only macro's 2 resources, unlike every other civ.
somppukunkku wrote:This is not a fucking discogame.
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

Re: EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

  • Quote

Post by deleted_user0 »

They are supbar cuz they are indeed almost as good as huss, which is already not a special unit. It has no age2 upgrades and it costs wood. The arty multiplier is ok, but the unit costs wood, making it quite a bit more expensive in vs compared to huss for a worse unit. Also realise that the wood upgrades for iro are quite expensive and you often cant afford to just mix it in like gangsaw. Also cav has to be mobile and cant be under explorer aura all the time, when u raid or catch raids for example

Aenna have great stats after ups, and good already before. I never said otherwise, but the animation is an issue and its bows, so the arrows often miss. Kanya are not efficient at all...
User avatar
United States of America Darwin_
Howdah
Posts: 1446
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
Location: Boston

Re: EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

Post by Darwin_ »

Yeah I guess. Though I think the art multiplier gives them a distinct advantage over Russia and other colonial civs against semi-ff's. It is a negative thing especially in fortress, but the better veteran upgrade helps a little bit, +6 kanya.

Also, if you go up with the wise woman, you can quite easily get the wood upgrade with the coin.
somppukunkku wrote:This is not a fucking discogame.
User avatar
United States of America Darwin_
Howdah
Posts: 1446
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
Location: Boston

Re: EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

Post by Darwin_ »

Mitoe wrote:I've been playing them a bit. They seem OK. Hard to say from the few games I've had time to play if they're top tier. Definitely playable now, at least.

Do you consider that farm start you did vs. Dicktator to be a good strategy? It seemed to be pretty good, as you could get the extra food ups and got a bunch of XP, but were also left with a building that is pretty useless on most maps for the first 15 minutes.
somppukunkku wrote:This is not a fucking discogame.
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

Post by Garja »

With 100f -> farm
With 100w -> TP
With 100g -> market
Image Image Image
User avatar
China fei123456
Jaeger
Posts: 3283
Joined: Apr 23, 2015
ESO: fei123456
Location: Alderaan

Re: EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

Post by fei123456 »

Garja wrote:With 100f -> farm
With 100w -> TP
With 100g -> market

if iro do the similar bo as in RE, it's definitely weaker.
thus, a 9p fast age up may be better (for colonial play).
User avatar
United States of America Darwin_
Howdah
Posts: 1446
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
Location: Boston

Re: EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

Post by Darwin_ »

Garja wrote:With 100f -> farm
With 100w -> TP
With 100g -> market

For market do you chop 150w or 100w and 75 coin?
somppukunkku wrote:This is not a fucking discogame.
Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
Joined: Jun 7, 2015
ESO: Jerom_

Re: EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

Post by momuuu »

I played some iro vs british today and the civ feels fine.
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

Post by Garja »

Couprider wrote:
Garja wrote:With 100f -> farm
With 100w -> TP
With 100g -> market

if iro do the similar bo as in RE, it's definitely weaker.
thus, a 9p fast age up may be better (for colonial play).

I used to do the same even without 100f. On RE you have those things for free.

Darwin_ wrote:
Garja wrote:With 100f -> farm
With 100w -> TP
With 100g -> market

For market do you chop 150w or 100w and 75 coin?

75w 75g and use the travois for market.
Image Image Image
User avatar
Canada Mitoe
Advanced Theory Craftsman
Posts: 5486
Joined: Aug 23, 2015
ESO: Mitoe
GameRanger ID: 346407

Re: EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

Post by Mitoe »

Darwin_ wrote:
Mitoe wrote:I've been playing them a bit. They seem OK. Hard to say from the few games I've had time to play if they're top tier. Definitely playable now, at least.

Do you consider that farm start you did vs. Dicktator to be a good strategy? It seemed to be pretty good, as you could get the extra food ups and got a bunch of XP, but were also left with a building that is pretty useless on most maps for the first 15 minutes.

It's good. It worked out slightly better than it normally would because I got insane treasures (50f, 90f, 150c, 90c, 95w), but you basically just convert your early travois into ~100f because you get the 3v earlier, and then you also have the opportunity to get the upgrades, and it's even better if it happens to be a livestock map and you can fatten the livestock now.

All that being said though, I'm still uncertain about how good Iro is. They're probably fine now: I'm just a really bad Iro player so I can't win any games :P
User avatar
Tuvalu gibson
Ninja
ECL Reigning Champs
Posts: 13597
Joined: May 4, 2015
Location: USA

Re: EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

Post by gibson »

Jerom wrote:I played some iro vs british today and the civ feels fine.
was that before or after you get demolished by the mutt?
User avatar
Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 10459
Joined: Mar 25, 2015
ESO: Pezet

Re: EP 3.0 Iroquois Discussion

Post by pecelot »

Getting demolished by dem Mut isn't something to be ashamed of... :roll:

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV