Dutch Discussion Thread

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Serbia Atomiswave
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

Post by Atomiswave »

I am interested to see how Dutch fare against dreaded French in 2.0. Cheaper banks, native snare removal, -100f for French and goon nerf all benefit Dutch. I think they actually have a chance now.
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

Post by Mimsy for President »

Germans are the best civ again.
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

Post by momuuu »

Atomiswave wrote:I am interested to see how Dutch fare against dreaded French in 2.0. Cheaper banks, native snare removal, -100f for French and goon nerf all benefit Dutch. I think they actually have a chance now.

they win I predict. But france honestly might jsut be weak. It'd be more interested in how weak france is.
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

Post by Atomiswave »

Mimsy for President wrote:Germans are the best civ again.


Maybe you are right. Uhlan nerf will hurt them, but we have to bear in mind that their biggest enemy goon is nerfed too, so it kinda makes it even. Also, Ger still has best eco, no competition.
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

Post by Atomiswave »

Jerom wrote:
Atomiswave wrote:I am interested to see how Dutch fare against dreaded French in 2.0. Cheaper banks, native snare removal, -100f for French and goon nerf all benefit Dutch. I think they actually have a chance now.

they win I predict. But france honestly might jsut be weak. It'd be more interested in how weak france is.


I don't think so, now it seems like France shifted from excellent to very good civ.
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

Post by Jaeger »

Well french can probably no longer do early market on the worst crate start so it'll be interesting to see, we might see 13v age ups being very common again which is nice
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

Worst crate is? Gold + 200f? I'm pretty sure they can always do the early market as it pays off for itself. The early TP, rather, seems not as viable as before.
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

I think you should be able to always research Hunting Dogs early, even after the nerf, but a TP will require a slight sacrifice in some cases.
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

Post by Jaeger »

Garja wrote:Worst crate is? Gold + 200f? I'm pretty sure they can always do the early market as it pays off for itself. The early TP, rather, seems not as viable as before.

Idk the crates for french but for german the worst was 300f 100w and you would age at 3:12-3:15 unless you got some good treasures
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

Post by saveyourskill »

raise max vill limit
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

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Post by Goodspeed »

Or remove it entirely, for all civs :unsure:
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

3.15 is fine.
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

Post by Jaeger »

Garja wrote:3.15 is fine.


Thats about 13s idle time worst case scenario :(
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

Post by n0el »

Goodspeed wrote:Or remove it entirely, for all civs :unsure:


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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

Anything between 3.05 and 3.15 is fine and it depends on which starting crate, first qued vill, exp, got treasures, etc.
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

Post by Darwin_ »

What if we reduce bank cost to 300 and 300 and decrease the build limit back to 4. I think that in 1v1 Dutch are fine, but in team their 10 minute eco is just too strong. Banks that cheap might be too good and have unintended consequences, but I would still like to see it.
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

Post by momuuu »

wouldn't make things better at all.

What if we dont touch dutch and people learn to play.
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

Banks are cheap enough lol
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

ā€“ Bank cost increased from 300f, 350w to 350f, 350w (bounties recalculated accordingly).
ā€“ "Tulip Speculation" home-city shipment Bank coin-trickle effect increased from 15% to 25%.
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

Post by princeofcarthage »

Theoretically, units and military buildings, give buildcost/10 build xp and buildcost/10*2 kill xp. Economic buildings give build xp buildcost/10*2 and kill xp of buildcost/10*4, and I think this is pretty much consistent throught the game ( few exceptions are there). It's inconsistent with bank however and I am guessing the only reason the xp is not in line with economic buildings but is equal to military buildings cuz it gives you resources worth 4 villagers. I am personally against the idea of increasing bank xp from 70 itself tbh. Maybe a small eco boost with boa and bor cards might be okay. Honestly I think lack of musketeer unit has been more problem to dutch than eco in age 2 cuz lack of musk kind of forces you into going fortress
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

princeofcarthage wrote:Theoretically, units and military buildings, give buildcost/10 build xp and buildcost/10*2 kill xp. Economic buildings give build xp buildcost/10*2 and kill xp of buildcost/10*4, and I think this is pretty much consistent throught the game ( few exceptions are there). It's inconsistent with bank however and I am guessing the only reason the xp is not in line with economic buildings but is equal to military buildings cuz it gives you resources worth 4 villagers. I am personally against the idea of increasing bank xp from 70 itself tbh. Maybe a small eco boost with boa and bor cards might be okay. Honestly I think lack of musketeer unit has been more problem to dutch than eco in age 2 cuz lack of musk kind of forces you into going fortress
I don't understand, I think. Please explain why a bank being equal to 4 Settlers would be a reason to give less experience.
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

Post by princeofcarthage »

well I can't what ES thought when they made so I am also just speculating, it might be cuz it is giving you something in return for, You spend 800 wood on plantation but you actually don't get anything unless you task villagers whereas bank gives you infinite amount of gold. All other economic buildings just give you the ability to gather resources or whatever their use is, however bank actually gives you resources. So it might be fair to cut their xp to non economic buildings
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

Thanks.

Either that, or it's just too strong since Dutch can invest a greater portion of their spendings in economic investment, since Banks are so expensive.

Still, there are many ways to go about things.
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

Post by princeofcarthage »

zoom wrote:Either that, or it's just too strong since Dutch can invest a greater portion of their spendings in economic investment, since Banks are so expensive.

I fail to understand what you mean by that I mean weather it's sarcastic or idk, but I think building bank is something similar to what british does with manors you invest a lot and get economic benefits later, 5 manors or 1 bank idk how that makes a difference, besides bank is much safer to raids and can act has defensive to tank damage
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread

Post by momuuu »

The perception of the masses with regards to dutch is imo very much so influenced by no tp maps. As a whole, I fail to see why there is something wrong with them on standard maps.

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