British Discussion Thread

Germany lordraphael
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by lordraphael »

britishmusketeer wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:I also just think that in general, all the little changes that have been made have drastically changed the way the game is being played, and that future changes really need to be super minimal.

Which civs would you apply that to? French play exactly the same, ger plays slightly differently but quite similar, iro and sioux are played differently as intended.

i ve told him that before. He just doesnt listen
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by knusch »

in case brits get nerfed im gonna join the mighty hazza in his boycott of EP
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Darwin_ »

britishmusketeer wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:I also just think that in general, all the little changes that have been made have drastically changed the way the game is being played, and that future changes really need to be super minimal.

Which civs would you apply that to? French play exactly the same, ger plays slightly differently but quite similar, iro and sioux are played differently as intended.

Uhlan change has had a huge nerf to Germany's age 3, and now many players (myslef included), are mixing in more war wagons, or early blackriders. Also, I have noticed some players favouring stableless age 2 ff's, something that was rarely seen before the change.

French players are far less likely to play age 2, even though the current meta is more age 2 focused than that of ep 1.2. This is partly due the -100 food, but also to the buffs to russia, ports and dutch. Going age 2 used to be a good position in many more matchups than it is now.

Before Ep 2.0, you would never see Dutch going 5 banks and 10 hussars, or even mixing in pikes in the case of the mirror. How much of this is due to the meta, I cant say, but without a doubt the changes in play have been heavily affected by cheaper banks.

Also with Brits, as I mentioned earlier, now can go for the semi-ff, even with VC and a tp, in many matchups in which that used to be suicide. Aging up at 10 minutes is no longer instant death because no civ can kill them at that point. It takes 2-3 more minutes for french/germany/ports to really get up a mass anywhere decent enough to actually trade with brits, and by that point, brits have 50+ villagers, as well as cards like Yeoman, and sometimes even a second town center. Now, most people would just say that you need to play faster and try to beat them earlier, but few civs can do it in age 2, and far fewer can kill them in age 3.

Civs like russia and ports I think have really benefitted from the patch changes, and play very similarly to their EP 1.2 counterparts, being just a bit better in every way. While I think that a lot of people disagree with the changes done unto them, you cant deny that they are probably two of the better balanced civs on EP right now (even though they are very strong they have nothing that is undeniably OP)
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Darwin_ »

lordraphael wrote:
britishmusketeer wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:I also just think that in general, all the little changes that have been made have drastically changed the way the game is being played, and that future changes really need to be super minimal.

Which civs would you apply that to? French play exactly the same, ger plays slightly differently but quite similar, iro and sioux are played differently as intended.

i ve told him that before. He just doesnt listen

You main france, and are very good at it, so obviously you've found your way to play them and work around the nerf. For me and others for which France was not a main civ, but still something that had a place in our repitoire, they are far weirder to play and their colonial is fairly weak compared to other civs (especially in team). Now, I dont think that the -100f is the sole reason for all of france's hardships, rather I think that the changes to other civs have had more of an effect on the way the play. My point I think still stands that the -100f change would have been fine if russia and dutch had not been buffed, but they were, so france got double the nerf effectively.
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by britishmusketeer »

Darwin_ wrote:French players are far less likely to play age 2, even though the current meta is more age 2 focused than that of ep 1.2. This is partly due the -100 food, but also to the buffs to russia, ports and dutch. Going age 2 used to be a good position in many more matchups than it is now.

lol that logic. Surely having a worse early game means it is harder to age?
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Darwin_ »

britishmusketeer wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:French players are far less likely to play age 2, even though the current meta is more age 2 focused than that of ep 1.2. This is partly due the -100 food, but also to the buffs to russia, ports and dutch. Going age 2 used to be a good position in many more matchups than it is now.

lol that logic. Surely having a worse early game means it is harder to age?

Yeah you're totally right, but I dont think that to nerf a civ's abilty to age up or the strength of their fortress age requires you need to nerf their early game. I just think a better solution could have been found by buffing civs weaker than france.
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by pecelot »

How has the meta shifted towards age 2 play exactly, according to you, @Darwin_ ?
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Darwin_ »

pecelot wrote:How has the meta shifted towards age 2 play exactly, according to you, @Darwin_ ?

Well, on 1.2, most of the colonial civs were hard countered by age 3 civs, but now those fortress civs are not as fast or whatever, and civs like ports, brits and russia now can go for the colonial timing push and force them to play colonial. The biggest reason I think we are seeing more colonial play is that the best civs on the patch are age 2 civs like brits, russia, azzy. The shift has not been super drastic all the way to colonial, but we are definetly see fewer 5 cav semi's and such, and generally just more units in colonial.
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

Would you please take my inbred slot on the EP-team, @Darwin_ ??
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Re: British Discussion Thread

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Post by lordraphael »

Darwin_ wrote:
pecelot wrote:How has the meta shifted towards age 2 play exactly, according to you, @Darwin_ ?

Well, on 1.2, most of the colonial civs were hard countered by age 3 civs, but now those fortress civs are not as fast or whatever, and civs like ports, brits and russia now can go for the colonial timing push and force them to play colonial. The biggest reason I think we are seeing more colonial play is that the best civs on the patch are age 2 civs like brits, russia, azzy. The shift has not been super drastic all the way to colonial, but we are definetly see fewer 5 cav semi's and such, and generally just more units in colonial.

which is a good thing.Personally i think europe civs are pretty balanced right now.
There are a few outliers ( dutch can occasionally seem OP altho they arent, port can be very problematic aswell. Its still somewhat unclear where ottoman stand. ) However i wouldnt even change that right now. To me the priority number one has to be to get the expansion civs into the picture.
Azzie is obviously fine. Wc bug needs to be removed, but apart from that they are splendid.( been my secret top civ since day 1 tbh. Unfortunately i cant play them :((( ) China is just fine aswell, grreat pick for livestock maps,and i think outside of that they dont do poorly aswell. Sioux and iro are underwhelming.
India has not really much use outside of cons and sepoy rushes. Regarding india it always feels like they jsut need that tiny little buff ( no idea what buff tho. Ideally i would like to nerf their rush option and give them exactly the buff they need to play "std" and not being forced into rushing anymore) somewhere to make them be able to compete in all mus. Dunno what to say about japan. playing agaisnt them is a pain, but so far they seem severly underused aswell. Maybe an early game buff while getting rid of their insane scaling would do good here.
The big problem with the expansion civs is that they are underplayed by nature. Most people just stick to european civs so its hard to get a grasp on where they stand. Even on RE where Iro SIOux japan etc are a lot stronger we see lots of european civilisations being played.
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by drsingh »

Change to France was very good imo. It decreases 120 vs at the start of the game. Which translates to eg 8 sec delay if aging up with 13cdb. 7-8 sec delay in first timing. And only a slight change in macro.

I agree now with the minimal approach. Its better to bring tier 1 and 3 to 2 than to bring 2 and 3 to 1. But we are already past that stage. There are two groups remaining - almost equal popular civ; underpowered (or wrongly perceived) and less played civ's.

So i suppose we should first focus on civ known and accepted well to be problematic. Sioux iriquos etc. And when the civ more deviated from the standard group are taken care of, the dust be allowed to settle and meta be more defined before touching civ which seem quite closely balanced right now.

For India I said before about 100 wood crate etc. But I've realised that this same approach with french won't work with india. While is true that India is a slow civ by design and this makes it underwhelming in most matchups, but it also has some of the good rushes in aoe3. There was a change in age sanc fp which is very specific for this issue. Decrease age 2 wonder time for all indian wonders except agra Fort by 10 sec.That is like having 1 extra villager building it = to 100 vs. This bonus India will only get when not rushing.
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

knusch wrote:in case brits get nerfed im gonna join the mighty hazza in his boycott of EP

Come to the light side my cuddlebear
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

lordraphael wrote:which is a good thing.Personally i think europe civs are pretty balanced right now.
There are a few outliers ( dutch can occasionally seem OP altho they arent, port can be very problematic aswell. Its still somewhat unclear where ottoman stand. ) However i wouldnt even change that right now. To me the priority number one has to be to get the expansion civs into the picture.
Azzie is obviously fine. Wc bug needs to be removed, but apart from that they are splendid.( been my secret top civ since day 1 tbh. Unfortunately i cant play them :((( ) China is just fine aswell, grreat pick for livestock maps,and i think outside of that they dont do poorly aswell. Sioux and iro are underwhelming.
India has not really much use outside of cons and sepoy rushes. Regarding india it always feels like they jsut need that tiny little buff ( no idea what buff tho. Ideally i would like to nerf their rush option and give them exactly the buff they need to play "std" and not being forced into rushing anymore) somewhere to make them be able to compete in all mus. Dunno what to say about japan. playing agaisnt them is a pain, but so far they seem severly underused aswell. Maybe an early game buff while getting rid of their insane scaling would do good here.
The big problem with the expansion civs is that they are underplayed by nature. Most people just stick to european civs so its hard to get a grasp on where they stand. Even on RE where Iro SIOux japan etc are a lot stronger we see lots of european civilisations being played.
How confident are you feeling about the respective TWC-civilizations, as well as Indians needing a nerf along with any buff?
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Darwin_ »

Not to speak for Rapha, but I think that the TWC and TAD civs need a fair bit of restructuring (sioux/iro especially). They have things that are super strong and abusable, but also some things that are very weak. Take India for example, strongest units of any civ and one of the best balanced eco's, but they are just a bit too slow. Same with Japan. Arguably same with Sioux. Iro has now become a fairly similar story as well. Balance stategies for those expansions was: "lets give them a few OP things, but nerf other areas to the ground". This style is unseen in the Euro civs, with maybe the sole exception of Otto.
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by pecelot »

Darwin_ wrote:
pecelot wrote:How has the meta shifted towards age 2 play exactly, according to you, @Darwin_ ?

Well, on 1.2, most of the colonial civs were hard countered by age 3 civs, but now those fortress civs are not as fast or whatever, and civs like ports, brits and russia now can go for the colonial timing push and force them to play colonial. The biggest reason I think we are seeing more colonial play is that the best civs on the patch are age 2 civs like brits, russia, azzy. The shift has not been super drastic all the way to colonial, but we are definetly see fewer 5 cav semi's and such, and generally just more units in colonial.

On the other hand, though, Spain has been buffed even more. With the uhlan nerf going for any age 2 play is risky as Germany, and I don't see a reason for which you'd go for a colonial play as the Portuguese.

drsingh wrote:Change to France was very good imo. It decreases 120 vs at the start of the game. Which translates to eg 8 sec delay if aging up with 13cdb. 7-8 sec delay in first timing. And only a slight change in macro.

It snowballs over time, which means that Fortress Age timings will be more delayed than the time for which you postpone your first age-up :!:
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by britishmusketeer »

pecelot wrote:
drsingh wrote:Change to France was very good imo. It decreases 120 vs at the start of the game. Which translates to eg 8 sec delay if aging up with 13cdb. 7-8 sec delay in first timing. And only a slight change in macro.

It snowballs over time, which means that Fortress Age timings will be more delayed than the time for which you postpone your first age-up :!:

Nope.
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by pecelot »

Your 4 CDBs shipment, for instance, arrives later, hence you'll have gathered less resources.
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by britishmusketeer »

pecelot wrote:Your 4 CDBs shipment, for instance, arrives later, hence you'll have gathered less resources.

Say you age 5 secs later, your 4 cdb will arrive 5 secs later, and you will still be 5 secs behind not more. -100f causes you to be behind more than -100f though ofc.
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by pecelot »

True, I should have thought about it initially — all I meant was that it hurts a lot more than it looks, but I guess my preceding speaker already took that into consideration — sorry!
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Darwin_ »

pecelot wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:
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Well, on 1.2, most of the colonial civs were hard countered by age 3 civs, but now those fortress civs are not as fast or whatever, and civs like ports, brits and russia now can go for the colonial timing push and force them to play colonial. The biggest reason I think we are seeing more colonial play is that the best civs on the patch are age 2 civs like brits, russia, azzy. The shift has not been super drastic all the way to colonial, but we are definetly see fewer 5 cav semi's and such, and generally just more units in colonial.

On the other hand, though, Spain has been buffed even more. With the uhlan nerf going for any age 2 play is risky as Germany, and I don't see a reason for which you'd go for a colonial play as the Portuguese.

The colonial play I am talking about is something like that timing push H2O did against Garja as ports. Or the dutch mirror in Garja vs. Look_Tom.
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by pecelot »

Certainly, but I'm not necessarily sure how it's connected with the recent changes... :hmm:
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Darwin_ »

Yeah only time will tell I think.
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Hidddy_ »

15 pop manor house, build limit of 14, 200w each
You max out manors with 2800w instead of 2700w, 210 manor pop instead of 200 which can still be capped at 200.
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by rsy »

looking at the current result of poll, maybe we should push the cost of manors up a bit
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by gamevideo113 »

Or increase manor building time.
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