British Discussion Thread

France Kaiserklein
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiserklein »

Well it's basically what russia does against brits, pressure a bit early on and then add blockhouse and hold mapcontrol. But tbh brits can break the contain in colo, or even break it with 2 falcs + vet musks.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by richard »

Goodspeed wrote:@richard If you want to reply to my post, please make a new thread instead (where you include both of our previous posts).

I read your post carefully now. Thanks again for your post. I decided against opening up a new discussion out of that.
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by chris1089 »

deleted_user wrote:
richard wrote:
yemshi wrote:Too many axioms, did not understand.

What is an axiom?

I'm not really sure. Can someone help us out?

An axiom is used in logic. It is assumptions you have to make for the basis of your argument.

"a statement or proposition which is regarded as being established, accepted, or self-evidently true." In this case, I think Richard is asking what ESOC's has established as it's goal because this is the basis from what any argument will be made - to attempt to achieve this goal.
I hope I am not misrepresenting what Richard said. I hope this is helpful, but I'm no expert on the subject. :)
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by deleted_user »

chris1089 wrote:
deleted_user wrote:
Show hidden quotes

I'm not really sure. Can someone help us out?

An axiom is used in logic. It is assumptions you have to make for the basis of your argument.

"a statement or proposition which is regarded as being established, accepted, or self-evidently true." In this case, I think Richard is asking what ESOC's has established as it's goal because this is the basis from what any argument will be made - to attempt to achieve this goal.
I hope I am not misrepresenting what Richard said. I hope this is helpful, but I'm no expert on the subject. :)

Thanks!
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India rsy
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by rsy »

Meme civ? @Hazza54321
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiserklein »

Can we finally nerf this civ? I mean a real nerf, and not some bullshit 5w change? It's so fucking strong in every game mode it's disgusting
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: British Discussion Thread

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Post by deleted_user0 »

just nerf ceasefire. ceasefire + unit pulling is just a joke. can't escape.
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by deleted_user »

Kaiserklein wrote:Can we finally nerf this civ? I mean a real nerf, and not some bullshit 5w change? It's so fucking strong in every game mode it's disgusting

What do you propose
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Re: British Discussion Thread

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Post by deleted_user0 »

Kaiserklein wrote:Can we finally nerf this civ? I mean a real nerf, and not some bullshit 5w change? It's so fucking strong in every game mode it's disgusting

Lol what. Brits are max mediocre. Nerf germ first.
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

yeah i really dont think theyre that good, strong but barely top 5
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiserklein »

Of course it's too strong and always was... They're fast, have the best eco, have a RI unit that beats fortress skirms in colo, have insane unit upgrades, and so on. They can even go fortress np. Idk how to nerf them though, I guess just more expensive manors.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Sargsyan »

They may beat fortress skirms in theory, but we all know they don't
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

Birts have plenty of weaknesses to compensate for great eco and solid army. Great still require resources, which any aggressive civ tend to deny very well and solid army is often embarassed against other colonial powerhouses or even just strong age III before there is enough lbow and goon mass.
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

To be fair brit isn't that strong on TP maps.
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Warno »

Russia seems to be the best counter to Brit, build blockhouses on hunts and contain. If Brit ages push before falcs come. If stays colonial fight under blockhouses, take good trades and eventually the hunts run out.
It is easily the most frustrating matchup for me.

It would be interesting to see head to head matchups, is this data available?
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by tedere12 »

Brit are nowhere near OP
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiserklein »

Ok, what match ups do brits even lose on a standard ep map?
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by deleted_user »

Kaiserklein wrote:Ok, what match ups do brits even lose on a standard ep map?

I watched you lose to Soldier(?) Russia as Brit like 5x on stream.
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by deleted_user »

Reliably any contain civ with good age 2 can deny Brit map which they burn or theoretically push and do damage if brit tries to age, that's a large window.
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Kaiserklein wrote:Ok, what match ups do brits even lose on a standard ep map?

India : Close MU. Brit can win it if you play very precisely, but one mistake and you're dead.

Iro : Somehow the MU is hard. You can't semi ff because else you die to the age 3 timing, and the amount of skirm/goon iro can get is insane. With the 6/5 kanya shipments, the 5 cuirs and the explorer ability, Iro can also deal with the longbowmen.
I haven't played this MU enough, but it might well be Iro favoured. It's definitely not an easy MU for brit though.

Spain : This MU is slightly brit favoured but it's not as easy as what people think. There's no way brit can age to fortress, and musk/huss timings can fail sometimes. It's definitely not hopeless.

Otto : Dealing with the ff/fi shit is always annoying. Brit should probably win this MU, but again, one mistake and you're dead.

Dutch : Slightly brit favoured, but the 5w manor nerf seems to hurt in this MU. I used to have easy time winning it, but now it looks close.

France : Honestly, with the manor nerf, I feel like it's almost fre favoured. There's not much you can do against a TP musk semi. As brit you have to cut some eco to deny stagecoach, then the cuir/falc timing is very scary, and in middle game you don't even have a better eco, and your army gets raped once cav combat comes in.

Germany : Another close MU. Most players just get angry and suicide their army, while they could just wait and win in late fortress because the 200/200 Ger army beats the 200/200 brit army, even after the manor nerf. Brit has a strong timing though.

Russia : Well, this MU is hard, and I still haven't found a way to win it consistently as brit. It feels like you have to gamble.
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

Actually Brits are around to 50% with basically every civ. Even Spain and Dutch have their chances on the EP (probably on the lower side of the win rate tho).
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Mitoe »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:the 200/200 Ger army beats the 200/200 brit army, even after the manor nerf.

I'm pretty sure this statement is false in every or almost every single matchup for Germany.
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiserklein »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Ok, what match ups do brits even lose on a standard ep map?

India : Close MU. Brit can win it if you play very precisely, but one mistake and you're dead.
Yeah that's one of the worst brit mus imo. And still not clear if brits lose it.

Iro : Somehow the MU is hard. You can't semi ff because else you die to the age 3 timing, and the amount of skirm/goon iro can get is insane. With the 6/5 kanya shipments, the 5 cuirs and the explorer ability, Iro can also deal with the longbowmen.
I haven't played this MU enough, but it might well be Iro favoured. It's definitely not an easy MU for brit though.
I've played this a lot as iro and it always feels brit favoured.

Spain : This MU is slightly brit favoured but it's not as easy as what people think. There's no way brit can age to fortress, and musk/huss timings can fail sometimes. It's definitely not hopeless.
Come on it's totally brit favoured. You can just stay colo and spam musk huss with ups, pull vils if needed to kill falcs. You don't even need a timing or an age up.

Otto : Dealing with the ff/fi shit is always annoying. Brit should probably win this MU, but again, one mistake and you're dead.
Quite sure brits win this if they scout properly. That's just otto, you can cheesed regardless of the civ you're playing, just because they have a lot of all in timings that can fuck you. But with proper scouting, I'd say otto wins only if they have a good stagecoach.

Dutch : Slightly brit favoured, but the 5w manor nerf seems to hurt in this MU. I used to have easy time winning it, but now it looks close.
This mu is super easy. I'd be willing to play it vs you as brits even if my brits suck. Same for spain actually.

France : Honestly, with the manor nerf, I feel like it's almost fre favoured. There's not much you can do against a TP musk semi. As brit you have to cut some eco to deny stagecoach, then the cuir/falc timing is very scary, and in middle game you don't even have a better eco, and your army gets raped once cav combat comes in.
Whenever I win this mu as fr it's because my opponent fucked up honestly. You have a tiny window to push, and usually it just fails if properly defended. And you also have to be careful about colo stuff, you can lose with falcs + vet musks vs pure musks lol. Though if you scout it and go skirm/goon you should be fine I guess.
Stagecoaching as france is not realistic btw. Unless brits go for full VC boom like you do, but that's probably just not the thing to do on a stagecoach map. Brits are a fast civ and can totally deny the tp line. Go play erik in this mu and try to stagecoach, we'll see how it ends.


Germany : Another close MU. Most players just get angry and suicide their army, while they could just wait and win in late fortress because the 200/200 Ger army beats the 200/200 brit army, even after the manor nerf. Brit has a strong timing though.
What? Ger has shitty units compared to brits. Goons > ww, huss > uhlans, lbs > skirms, it's not even close. And uhlans are not pop efficient. The only way to win this mu as ger is to hit a fortress timing when brit goes out for hunts (because if you push in the brit base you lose to pathing), but usually it just fails, unless it's a low food map where brit has to go out early.

Russia : Well, this MU is hard, and I still haven't found a way to win it consistently as brit. It feels like you have to gamble.
It's a close MU yeah, depends a lot on the map. Don't think brits lose it overall though.

So imo, the only match ups where brits struggle are india, russia and otto on some maps. And they're not even losing them, it's close. That's why I think brits are too strong.

deleted_user wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Ok, what match ups do brits even lose on a standard ep map?

I watched you lose to Soldier(?) Russia as Brit like 5x on stream.

It was somppu, and 2 times I think lol, not 5. Iirc it was on low food maps like Alaska, and after 6h of streaming or so. Plus I don't even have good brits, and it was still super close games.
Anyway yeah russia vs brit is close.

EDIT: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/397565468?t=5h15m
=> yeah 2 times, both on alaska, after 5+ hours of streaming/commenting.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by deleted_user0 »

We don't really have any evidence brit being op at all. Even erik went 0-3 as them in monociv cup.
I would really like to see even solid winning streaks against fre/germ among equal players to consider them being near op. Just like otto, they can be quite good and slightly favoured in a high res map such as hudson bay or arkansas. However, in maps like tassili or arizona they are rather weak and probably worse than fre/germ. They are balanced.

Another thing is that brits don't even have eco theory which means they have 10% worse eco than ger/fre when it goes to super late game.
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Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Mitoe »

somppukunkku wrote:Another thing is that brits don't even have eco theory which means they have 10% worse eco than ger/fre when it goes to super late game.

That's not quite how that works.

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