Aztecs Discussion Thread

User avatar
No Flag thebritish
Jaeger
Posts: 3787
Joined: Jul 18, 2015

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by thebritish »

ERK are very bad for their cost because for 30 less resources they have 50-100 less HP than dragoons and 20 less attack, while they have alot of cards which need to be used on them...
krichk wrote: For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge thebritish
User avatar
China fei123456
Jaeger
Posts: 3283
Joined: Apr 23, 2015
ESO: fei123456
Location: Alderaan

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by fei123456 »

aztec have the worst eco, while fastest shipment speed. nerf war priests while buffing their eco too.
User avatar
No Flag Jaeger
Jaeger
Posts: 4492
Joined: Feb 28, 2015

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by Jaeger »

Couprider wrote:aztec have the worst eco, while fastest shipment speed. nerf war priests while buffing their eco too.

I think that gives them a unique feel though.
last time i cryed was because i stood on Legoļ»æ
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

Ye exactly. Same logic again: don't push civs to a common play style. TWC civs are low eco/good unit civs and they have to remain that way.
Image Image Image
Australia Hazza54321
Pro Player
Winter Champion 2020 x2Donator 01
Posts: 8049
Joined: May 4, 2015
ESO: PrinceofBabu

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

aztecs are fine imo, they need a decent anti cav unit in age 3 otherwise people just abuse their anti cav weakness, however the fire pit may be abit too strong on att dance maybe reduce the effect? but keep it the same for xp, fertility etc...
No Flag H4all
Crossbow
Posts: 9
Joined: Dec 20, 2015

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by H4all »

What are the thoughts about Jaguar Warriors though? They're really strong in general, costing only 1 pop and having quite the attack/health/siege. Also lot's of possible upgrade cards. I usually do the infantry combat cards, siege card, jag golden card and food & plantation/farm improvement cards. Makes up for their bad eco and will make u able to spawn lots and lots of jags in a short amount of time.
User avatar
No Flag Jaeger
Jaeger
Posts: 4492
Joined: Feb 28, 2015

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by Jaeger »

Hazza54321 wrote:aztecs are fine imo, they need a decent anti cav unit in age 3 otherwise people just abuse their anti cav weakness, however the fire pit may be abit too strong on att dance maybe reduce the effect? but keep it the same for xp, fertility etc...

Not sure if you're trolling or just forgot that they get ERK.
last time i cryed was because i stood on Legoļ»æ
User avatar
Great Britain britishmusketeer
Howdah
Posts: 1845
Joined: Feb 28, 2015

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by britishmusketeer »

ovi12 wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:aztecs are fine imo, they need a decent anti cav unit in age 3 otherwise people just abuse their anti cav weakness, however the fire pit may be abit too strong on att dance maybe reduce the effect? but keep it the same for xp, fertility etc...

Not sure if you're trolling or just forgot that they get ERK.

+1
User avatar
New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 9314
Joined: Apr 26, 2015
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

H4all wrote:What are the thoughts about Jaguar Warriors though? They're really strong in general, costing only 1 pop and having quite the attack/health/siege. Also lot's of possible upgrade cards. I usually do the infantry combat cards, siege card, jag golden card and food & plantation/farm improvement cards. Makes up for their bad eco and will make u able to spawn lots and lots of jags in a short amount of time.

There is absolutely no incentive to make them from a competitive standpoint. They aren't terrible though.
No Flag H4all
Crossbow
Posts: 9
Joined: Dec 20, 2015

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by H4all »

zoom wrote:
H4all wrote:What are the thoughts about Jaguar Warriors though? They're really strong in general, costing only 1 pop and having quite the attack/health/siege. Also lot's of possible upgrade cards. I usually do the infantry combat cards, siege card, jag golden card and food & plantation/farm improvement cards. Makes up for their bad eco and will make u able to spawn lots and lots of jags in a short amount of time.

There is absolutely no incentive to make them from a competitive standpoint. They aren't terrible though.


But why not? There's hardly anything that can beat them? They have good dmg/health per cost and per pop, easy to train, are great against any unit that normally counters hand infantry and stealth finishes the job. What units are better then?
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

Pretty much every ranged unit beat them in a real game. Otherwise ye they're not bad, kinda like halbs lol.
Image Image Image
No Flag adderbrain5
Lancer
Posts: 874
Joined: Mar 20, 2015

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by adderbrain5 »

TREATY

There is actually a competitive reason to use Jags. More so in team games when your opponent is not seeing your whole pop constantly(that would make him detect this subterfuge)
Anyway, manage 30+jags behind a whole in one of your opponent's walls and you can be sure to do some serious damage before he can deal with them. It is sort of a strategy, much how the iroquois FB's with stealth prowlers constantly, they know you are doing it, but the idea is to overwhelm them with it. One prowler here making another WH one prowler there... in the same way whenever your teammate is opening a wall be sure to have 25-50 jags stealth and ready to go in, and at the very least clear out his military buildings so that your team can creep. I see aztecs as more of an auxiliary civ on a team. They are sometimes good for providing that one unit to any team member that can make their composition unbeatable. Or build all the walls and town dance etc.

Even 1v1 this strategy of constantly opening walls and stealthign 10-15 jags works well for creeping if you have incredibly sick control group micro to manage it. Personally I don't ;(
User avatar
China fei123456
Jaeger
Posts: 3283
Joined: Apr 23, 2015
ESO: fei123456
Location: Alderaan

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by fei123456 »

aztec can build noble hut in age 2 (build limit is 2), but can not train units until age 3.
this will make their semiff more smooth.
User avatar
Germany Lukas_L99
Pro Player
Donator 01
Posts: 2059
Joined: Nov 15, 2015
ESO: Lukas_L99
Location: LĆ¼beck

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by Lukas_L99 »

adderbrain5 wrote:TREATY

There is actually a competitive reason to use Jags. More so in team games when your opponent is not seeing your whole pop constantly(that would make him detect this subterfuge)
Anyway, manage 30+jags behind a whole in one of your opponent's walls and you can be sure to do some serious damage before he can deal with them. It is sort of a strategy, much how the iroquois FB's with stealth prowlers constantly, they know you are doing it, but the idea is to overwhelm them with it. One prowler here making another WH one prowler there... in the same way whenever your teammate is opening a wall be sure to have 25-50 jags stealth and ready to go in, and at the very least clear out his military buildings so that your team can creep. I see aztecs as more of an auxiliary civ on a team. They are sometimes good for providing that one unit to any team member that can make their composition unbeatable. Or build all the walls and town dance etc.

Even 1v1 this strategy of constantly opening walls and stealthign 10-15 jags works well for creeping if you have incredibly sick control group micro to manage it. Personally I don't ;(


Well obviously a decent player will notice if his opponent is fighting with 30+ less population and suspect a run, also a decent player would wall the map which means that you can't pass to his base walls undetected.
Also in current meta the explorer is used at the main fight in every game (and obviously revived in the TC once its 'dead'), so every stealthed unit will become visible as soon as you get close enough to his army.

The biggest problem of Aztecs is countering a mix of musketeers and skimishers since they don't have artillery, many jaguars/coyotes die before reaching the target and macehualtin only do 16x2 damage versus heavy infantry (yes, their ROF is 1.5, still not good). An idea I had was giving macehualtin +1 bonus versus heavy inf by sending the age 3 card for 1000 coin (comparable to royal green jackets from India), but I am not entirely sure in what way this change would influence sup balance.
Another problem is sieging walls, arrow knights cost 2 pop and they take ages to destroy a wall, also if you make too many of them your army becomes too small.
No Flag H4all
Crossbow
Posts: 9
Joined: Dec 20, 2015

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by H4all »

Pretty sure if you put any unit vs the amount of jags that the unit costs pop will lose against the jag(s). Stealth makes up for their lack of range, although I never used them 1v1 so not sure how that would work out against a skirm/musk combo. Guess they have a weakness there.
User avatar
Brazil lemmings121
Jaeger
Posts: 2673
Joined: Mar 15, 2015
ESO: lemmings121

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by lemmings121 »

Since we are talking aztecs... today I played a few games vs japs with old school 2skull age up. It kinda works... Also, what about the war hut age up in gerenal? not that great 250w age up, but just maybe....

Until some time ago no one used the fast ageup, and today pretty much everyone assumes thats the only viable option... what you guys think about it?
Image
User avatar
China fei123456
Jaeger
Posts: 3283
Joined: Apr 23, 2015
ESO: fei123456
Location: Alderaan

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by fei123456 »

if azzy has a better semiff, a skull age up then fast age up will be better.
but azzy cant train unit when hitting age 3. you have to spend a lot of time to build a noble hut lol.
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

skull age up sux. Just go wh.
Image Image Image
No Flag mnogud
Lancer
Posts: 904
Joined: Mar 6, 2015

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by mnogud »

Garja wrote:skull age up sux. Just go wh.

i never really understood why.... i feel they do soo good against musk huss
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

a slower pike that does good against musk huss?
Image Image Image
User avatar
Brazil lemmings121
Jaeger
Posts: 2673
Joined: Mar 15, 2015
ESO: lemmings121

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by lemmings121 »

Garja wrote:a slower pike that does good against musk huss?


against jap their siege potential with x3 explorer xp seens like a nice way of killing houses while I mass army, also, usefull against a surprise naginata, but yeah, they are pretty much useless in a straight up fight, they get picked too easily...

What is your wh age up bo?

700w 600w(second war hut) mass army?
maybe 700w 3wp if not going full agressive....?
Image
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

vs jap fast age is just superior, u can do the exact same thing making even just 3 puma and then full mace.
With war hut you can do many things. 3wp 5v 600g is ok for semi ff.
Image Image Image
User avatar
China fei123456
Jaeger
Posts: 3283
Joined: Apr 23, 2015
ESO: fei123456
Location: Alderaan

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by fei123456 »

Garja wrote:vs jap fast age is just superior, u can do the exact same thing making even just 3 puma and then full mace.
With war hut you can do many things. 3wp 5v 600g is ok for semi ff.

but 2 skull knight = 500 gold. they are insane with cav raids imo, and can auto upgrade when reaching fortress.
User avatar
China fei123456
Jaeger
Posts: 3283
Joined: Apr 23, 2015
ESO: fei123456
Location: Alderaan

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by fei123456 »

the problem is when should aztec go fortress.
they can rush nearly every civ, but the rush may not succeed everytime (vs india for example). when reaching late colonial, puma become less scary and i wish they could become erk :(
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Aztec Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

Couprider wrote:
Garja wrote:vs jap fast age is just superior, u can do the exact same thing making even just 3 puma and then full mace.
With war hut you can do many things. 3wp 5v 600g is ok for semi ff.

but 2 skull knight = 500 gold. they are insane with cav raids imo, and can auto upgrade when reaching fortress.

2 skull knights are worth much less than that. They dont really catch cav raids vs a good player, take 4 pop that you need early on and on top of that they don't give you fast age up time or extra wood (war hut) which are the 2 things you want from an age up. In fortress they're kinda useless because of skirms.
Image Image Image

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV