Germans Discussion Thread

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Tokelau jesus3
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Re: German Discussion Thread

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Post by jesus3 »

Hallo, deutscher Diskussions-Thread! Wieso wird hier auf Englisch diskutiert?
Haltet euch mal an die Regeln.
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

i only see dop uhlan being good vs dutch or russia tbh
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiserklein »

Well honestly if I had to choose 1 match up to go dop uhlan it would be aztecs. Of course you always need a few bows in the back, can't ever go pure dop uhlan if the other guy doesn't do bullshit. But the point is that maces can't really hit and run and azzy doesn't have musks.
The problem vs russia is that they usually camp between 2 bh and can hit and run with musk + strel, so your dop cav might just get kited to death.
Against dutch I'm pretty sure it wins if the guy doesn't scout and adapt. Like you might even be able to just clean him up and right click his tc and get it down. But if he sees it coming he can just get pikes to block + mm + skirms sniping dops. And the pathing is gonna suck in the middle of dutch base for all these melee units.
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by forgrin »

I'm not a German pro but I think if you find yourself stuck in colonial (or even have to age late and have leftover units) Vs Russia then dopp/ulhan can be strong. Ofc the Russian player can cost you a lot with kiting strel on your dopps, but one misclick and his entire mass gets gangbanged by Dopp+ulhan damage stacking and you win for free. Snare is pretty much death which means although it might not theoretically be in Ger's favour in reality it's pretty close, or at least as close as it can get Vs Russia in colonial.

Also works wonders Vs a Russia who trys to stagecoach while you age, 10 dopps take a tp in like 5 swings.
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by momuuu »

Germany doesnt have many good units so they make uhlans. Not because uhlans are too strong. What else do you expect? Germany massing war wagons or dopps?

Dopps are great against aztec though, would always make those over WWs.
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

Nah RE ulhans are actually quite good. They have slight premium stats for their cost, especially when they have to perform the blocking role and can make full use of their high attack. It probably has to do with German lack of both musk and goon unit (tho WW still fits the ranged cav role) or simply high attack low hp unit is just good on lot of cases. And again ulhans have 30% rr which makes them significantly tankier than what people think even tho their hp is super low. That is in mass and in 1v1 of course. In team they might just underperform but mostly because of how team tends to be played.
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiserklein »

Why won't we just revert the uhlan hp nerf and replace it with another nerf? I see all the time people complaining about the uhlan hp but it's never changed. And the lastest change concerning the age 4 uhlan card makes sense, but it's completely irrelevant in 1v1.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by deleted_user0 »

cause germany is fine now. we have way worse civs
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiserklein »

It's not just about balance, it just makes no sense to have useless uhlans
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

yeah its a meme unit
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

The change is too unpopular to be tolerated.
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Re: German Discussion Thread

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Post by Hazza54321 »

meme civ
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

hell no
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by lordraphael »

i think they should remain at 180 hp for now. Still mid tier with that change. But whats more important, we cant go between reverting and reapplying the same change over and over again. Better to let the change be in place for now and see how it evolves. Im not a fan of this change either, but as it is theres not really a nice solution for germany.
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiserklein »

But we never tried any other change for germany. That's maybe why we're stuck in this awkward 180/185-190 hp uhlan situation where you have either an overrepresented or an underrepresented unit. And there are other possible changes, I already wrote some in this same thread.
Though yeah I agree that it's awkward to revert the change and try something new while making so many other changes to various civs, it would just make it even harder to balance. But I hope in a future patch we will some more exciting changes for germany.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Mitoe »

I mean what other good alternatives are there? The most common suggestion seems to be to nerf their shipments so they get 1 less uhlan with them or nerf their vill cards, etc. but these are just god awful suggestions.

I think German is fine right now anyway.
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiserklein »

I'm too lazy to write another time in this thread the suggestions but it wasn't just removing blindly 1 uhlan from every shipment
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Mitoe »

I mean, I guess adjusting the cost or something could be a decent alternative
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

lordraphael wrote:i think they should remain at 180 hp for now. Still mid tier with that change. But whats more important, we cant go between reverting and reapplying the same change over and over again. Better to let the change be in place for now and see how it evolves. Im not a fan of this change either, but as it is theres not really a nice solution for germany.
I generally agree with that point, but this change has to go. It's just too unpopular. Increasing Uhlan cost always seemed the better option to me, to begin with. It doesn't change the performance of the unit, and is easier to assess, quantify and tweak.
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

Mitoe wrote:I mean, I guess adjusting the cost or something could be a decent alternative
Now that's funny. Why, yes it is.
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

Increasing cost isn't a great solution. It has two downsides:
- it can limit the production of the unit, especially early on. This is a downside because more weaker units doesn't equal to less stronger units. Especially when the two things are not perfectly proportional (unit training works in discrete numbers and not percentages like a cost increase);
- it doesn't affect ulhans from shipments which in the end is the real problem.
If we ever want to test something else it has to be nerfing shipments in a way or another, since Germans balance issues are exclusively related to that.
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by deleted_user0 »

Mitoe wrote:I mean what other good alternatives are there? The most common suggestion seems to be to nerf their shipments so they get 1 less uhlan with them or nerf their vill cards, etc. but these are just god awful suggestions.

I think German is fine right now anyway.


what's wrong with -1 uhlan to fortress shipments?
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Mitoe »

I was thinking more along the lines of leave the change as is and decrease the cost of uhlans to 50f 95c or something.

@deleted_user It's just awkward. Feels weird design-wise.
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by deleted_user0 »

Mitoe wrote:I was thinking more along the lines of leave the change as is and decrease the cost of uhlans to 50f 95c or something.

@deleted_user It's just awkward. Feels weird design-wise.


it feels less awkward to me than all these cost changes and 5% 2% 10% hp fluctuations...
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Mitoe »

I don't see how it'd be less awkward. Changes the civ's design in a big way.

Reducing unit shipments to like 7/6 skirm and 7/8 uhlan would be better than that.

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