Germans Discussion Thread

[Kaiserklein]

this is the germany thread, probably best to keep it on germany

personally i think the only issue with germany is their discovery age TP, it just accelerates the entire civ so much

germany with an early tp basically has spain's civ bonus for 200w

I think tps are overall too cheap. 200w for such a bonus, sometimes even in discovery...

I dont think we've ever played though.

Also, I was doing cav pike semi in that much up for quite a while actually.

I smurfed you obviously

[iNcog]

200w TP is something which won't be touched afaik, it also shouldn't, imo

for germany imo limiting starting crates might be an idea

otherwise maps could also be made so that trade routes give less XP per pass, though i'm not sure at all that that is the right call

[Kaiserklein]

200w TP is something which won't be touched afaik, it also shouldn't, imo

for germany imo limiting starting crates might be an idea

otherwise maps could also be made so that trade routes give less XP per pass, though i'm not sure at all that that is the right call

Since germany relies so much on its shipments, it makes you feel like the early TP for germany is op. But in fact, it's always kinda op (even more for germany ofc). It depends a lot on the map, for example whether you can defend your tp or not, but it's usually a very good investment. Even let's say with brits, you just chop 35w and get tp + house. You have your 3 vils earlier, and when you hit colonial you already gained almost 1 shipment... Same as french, on some maps with the 200w 400f start you can age up with 13 vils + early tp if you get a good wood/food treasure. If some other civs, like spain or ports, have to age up later for their early tp, it can still be incredible sometimes

And even overall, 200w for a tp is really cheap. Why else would we see people making more and more tps, even getting stagecoach etc ? I'm fine with tps but imo it shouldn't be something you ALWAYS build.

[deleted_user0]

German is not op i think
if possible, give spain 400w age up from german

Nah. EP is not supposed to change the meta. It's spain's feature that they dont have ranged inf shipments and wood age up.

Germans are op on tp maps, as classified by many good players. On non tp map they aren't.

it's iro's feature to have start tp. why do you change this?

Because something is only civ design if garja likes it.

[Garja]

It's not iro feature to have a starting TP. Unlikely otto with 250w TPs they couldn't build a TP with a 200w start. In general they're fine without TPs and the only real TP civ is otto.

[Hazza54321]

200w TP is something which won't be touched afaik, it also shouldn't, imo

for germany imo limiting starting crates might be an idea

otherwise maps could also be made so that trade routes give less XP per pass, though i'm not sure at all that that is the right call

Since germany relies so much on its shipments, it makes you feel like the early TP for germany is op. But in fact, it's always kinda op (even more for germany ofc). It depends a lot on the map, for example whether you can defend your tp or not, but it's usually a very good investment. Even let's say with brits, you just chop 35w and get tp + house. You have your 3 vils earlier, and when you hit colonial you already gained almost 1 shipment... Same as french, on some maps with the 200w 400f start you can age up with 13 vils + early tp if you get a good wood/food treasure. If some other civs, like spain or ports, have to age up later for their early tp, it can still be incredible sometimes

And even overall, 200w for a tp is really cheap. Why else would we see people making more and more tps, even getting stagecoach etc ? I'm fine with tps but imo it shouldn't be something you ALWAYS build.

this may be true my chick magnet, but german shipments are so strong and valuable and the fact that their penalty is so little in terms of xp rate makes them even better compared to other civs.

[Garja]

Their penalty is 10% which is not little. It is however compensated for the first few shipments by the TP so that there isn't much difference between Germany and other civs. As the game goes on the TP doesn't really affect the shipment rate and it is easier to tell that Germans shipments come quite later.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yeah 10% is really huge. ger is like otto tho, very hard to balance because of TPs, they would be average without TP

[Kaiserklein]

On a no tp map you sometimes have no shipment ready when you hit colonial with 17 vils age up lol

[Garja]

On tad only if you didn't take any treasure. On nilla the penalty was worse (ulhan and SW were worse too btw)

[Kaiserklein]

The xp penalty is the same on nilla and tad. SW are the same as well. Uhlans have indeed a bit less speed and a multiplier vs vils

[Garja]

In TWC German shipment rate was improved. Penalty was reduced from 14% to 10%.
Also apparently doppelsoldner were given +30 hp.
SW gather crates slower on nilla.

[Kaiserklein]

In TWC German shipment rate was improved. Penalty was reduced from 14% to 10%.
Also apparently doppelsoldner were given +30 hp.
SW gather crates slower on nilla.

Idk but atm it's 10% on nilla as well, and the dops are the same. Maybe it wasn't that way before. Yeah sw do gather crates a bit slower, not sure it's very important tho

[fei123456]

remove their 400w upgrade and give it to spain
german dont have musk in age 2 and uhlan itself is not as cost effective as hussar. but with 400w and exalted prince and 3sw, their semiff is so smooth and strong.

[fei123456]

also xbow needs buff
xbow has nearly the same vs as musk and they are designed to counter musk, but musk kill a xbow with 6 shots (sepoy 5), while xbow kill a musk with 8 shots (sepoy 10). don't you think it's a joke?

oh no, i took out my calculater and find that xbow is in fact more expensive than a musk (considering that wood gather rate is 0.5/s only). so "xbow counters heavy infantry" is an annual joke

[Rikikipu]

also xbow needs buff
xbow has nearly the same vs as musk and they are designed to counter musk, but musk kill a xbow with 6 shots (sepoy 5), while xbow kill a musk with 8 shots (sepoy 10). don't you think it's a joke?

oh no, i took out my calculater and find that xbow is in fact more expensive than a musk (considering that wood gather rate is 0.5/s only). so "xbow counters heavy infantry" is an annual joke

+1000

[Hazza54321]

they do have 4 more range though, but i agree

[Kaiserklein]

they do have 4 more range though, but i agree

Yeah but they can also miss their target sometimes and they have a slightly longer shooting animation. The only good thing about bows is you can use wood crates and make them insanely cheap

[bart331]

Think we can all agree the REAL problem is tps being too cheap, which help tons with all tp powered semi ffs. So increase tp cost to 250w is logical solution...

But hey balance patch will probably not adress REAL problems ( same with xbow vs musk which is a joke). Reason musketeers have way too much ranged dmg...

And that one is also off limits.....

[[Armag] diarouga]

Think we can all agree the REAL problem is tps being too cheap, which help tons with all tp powered semi ffs. So increase tp cost to 250w is logical solution...

But hey balance patch will probably not adress REAL problems ( same with xbow vs musk which is a joke). Reason musketeers have way too much ranged dmg...

And that one is also off limits.....

Bows are easy to spam, they are not meant to be a good unit.

[bart331]

Think we can all agree the REAL problem is tps being too cheap, which help tons with all tp powered semi ffs. So increase tp cost to 250w is logical solution...

But hey balance patch will probably not adress REAL problems ( same with xbow vs musk which is a joke). Reason musketeers have way too much ranged dmg...

And that one is also off limits.....

Bows are easy to spam, they are not meant to be a good unit.

strelets are also easy to spam....

[Goodspeed]

Strelets are designed to be both spammable and a strong late game unit, Russia has no skirmisher to replace them in later stages. Xbows are a unit you can use for early game aggression but they are indeed not meant to last very long.

That's not to say musketeers aren't OP, they definitely are, but at this point we can't change that without ruining civ balance.

[zoom]

Think we can all agree the REAL problem is tps being too cheap, which help tons with all tp powered semi ffs. So increase tp cost to 250w is logical solution...

But hey balance patch will probably not adress REAL problems ( same with xbow vs musk which is a joke). Reason musketeers have way too much ranged dmg...

And that one is also off limits.....

I'd rather just make TPs worse.

[bart331]

Strelets are designed to be both spammable and a strong late game unit, Russia has no skirmisher to replace them in later stages. Xbows are a unit you can use for early game aggression but they are indeed not meant to last very long.

That's not to say musketeers aren't OP, they definitely are, but at this point we can't change that without ruining civ balance.

Xbow rushes are just as viable as outlaw rushes or native rushes, while they are meant to be a serious unit. At least in age2 they need to have some sort of importance except you can get shittons of em really quick. Nerfing musketeer type of units is something which will make this game a lot more fun, more micro intense in age2.

All what is needed is nerfing musketeers, oh ye and tps

how often do you see port/spain make xbows?

[thebritish]

xbows who are like lbows suck so they have to be cheap (the difference is that lbows are expensive for their worth), also why spain would make xbows when they have skirmishers and need pikes for anticav instead of xbow