ESOCommunity

This is the German Discussion thread, where several topics concerning this civilization on the ESOC Patch may be discussed. We're looking for feedback on the current state of balance, from the community's standpoint.

I think itd would be nice to make germany less TP dependand somewhere in a future patch. Does anyone have ideas how to do that?

I also think it would be nice to nerf them lol.

diarouga wrote:I also think it would be nice to nerf them lol.

what do you mean with that?

jerom wrote:

diarouga wrote:I also think it would be nice to nerf them lol.

what do you mean with that?

that they are too strong lol?

2 uhlans with every shipment is just a broken bonus' I've been saying this since my pr15 nilla days. 2 uhlan basically represent 1-2 villager kills which means all of your shipments basically have +1/2 vills. Can you imagine India with a fast ageup politician to age 3 and a better age 3?

bramboy wrote:2 uhlans with every shipment is just a broken bonus' I''ve been saying this since my pr15 nilla days. 2 uhlan basically represent 1-2 villager kills which means all of your shipments basically have +1/2 vills. Can you imagine India with a fast ageup politician to age 3 and a better age 3?

you just suck at defending your vills though.

Regardless of whether germany is balanced or not, I think moving forward it would be better if germany''s performance is consistent on the maps and doesnt drop badly if theres no TP.

The fact that you can age to Fortress with a really good eco and then quickly DPS your way to victory with ulhans in most MUs is what makes them OP. The issue with ulhans is that they're simply too good to get for free AND to have 9-8 shipments of them. As long as you have decent micro, Germany is disgustingly strong in age 3. You can't all-in them in colonial without difficulty, as they'll raid you to death the entire time forcing you to split military.

jerom wrote:

diarouga wrote:I also think it would be nice to nerf them lol.

what do you mean with that?

That ger is probably one of the best, if not the best EP civ... Theyre also quite dumb since their weakness is their colonial but you cant punish their age up.

bramboy wrote:2 uhlans with every shipment is just a broken bonus' I''ve been saying this since my pr15 nilla days. 2 uhlan basically represent 1-2 villager kills which means all of your shipments basically have +1/2 vills. Can you imagine India with a fast ageup politician to age 3 and a better age 3?

Now, now, you need to herd and watch the mini-map.

Germany is strong but not what I would consider an OP civ. If anything, other civs need to be buffed to Germany''s level.

diarouga wrote:

jerom wrote:what do you mean with that?

That ger is probably one of the best, if not the best EP civ... Theyre also quite dumb since their weakness is their colonial but you cant punish their age up.

should german train some war wagon in age 3? uhlan skirm lose to hussar dragoon. but h2o hates ww so i dont know what to do.

imo you should send black riders.

paul wrote:

diarouga wrote:That ger is probably one of the best, if not the best EP civ... Theyre also quite dumb since their weakness is their colonial but you cant punish their age up.

should german train some war wagon in age 3? uhlan skirm lose to hussar dragoon. but h2o hates ww so i dont know what to do.

H20 is a very good player but... if your opponent is going hussar/goon ww are needed, and imo war wagon are fine not as good as goons but still effectively kill hand cav.

btw germans are good without TP too. TP is an extra.

Maybe reduce shipment rate malus from 14 to 5, decrease uhlan hp by 5-10 and have them still get 3 uhlans in fort but only 1 in colo

garja wrote:btw germans are good without TP too. TP is an extra.

Idk, they cant go age 3 in most matchups and theyre age 2 is pretty good with tp but witouth its just so much worse

3 sw + 2 uhlan -> 3 sw seems like a fair change to me. That shipment is way too strong.

jerom wrote:3 sw + 2 uhlan ->' 3 sw seems like a fair change to me. That shipment is way too strong.

I think just have it give1 uhlan. With only 6 uhlans you really cant trade well vs 5 huss, so youll have to just defend more

I think you are just overreacting, every civ has it's bonus, Being a historical rts, based in the era prussia(germany) was a highly militaristic state which just makes more sense having 2 uhlan per shipment. Don't you think brit would do just fine without settlers per manor it's a extra bonus they receive compared to other civ, its not that unfair. Besides ger lacks musket unit which is inarguably a huge disadvantage. It's difficult to punish german age up true, but remember hussar is better than uhlan, the extra uhlans I think is a necessity rather than luxury to keep cav battle fair rather than heavily favoring brit or france

diarouga wrote:

jerom wrote:what do you mean with that?

That ger is probably one of the best, if not the best EP civ... Theyre also quite dumb since their weakness is their colonial but you cant punish their age up.

You can punish them in colonial tho. Well it depends on the civ you are playing, but as french for example you really can

I think, if we really want to nerf germany (Im not convinced about that tho), we should start with a multiplier against vils, like on nilla. It isnt an enormous change, but it does make uhlans less interesting to trade vs vils. I usually know that whenever a vil is a bit too far from tc I can just sacrify 1 uhlan if my opponent tries to defend the vil with his cav and still kill the vil, and imo losing 1 uhlan to kill 1 vil is a good trade. If they had a 0.75 multiplier, maybe we wouldnt be able to trade like that. For info, it would make them need 7 hits to kill a cdb vs 5 atm, and 10 hits to kill an upgraded vil vs 7 atm

kaiserklein wrote:

diarouga wrote:That ger is probably one of the best, if not the best EP civ... Theyre also quite dumb since their weakness is their colonial but you cant punish their age up.

You can punish them in colonial tho. Well it depends on the civ you are playing, but as french for example you really can

I think, if we really want to nerf germany (Im not convinced about that tho), we should start with a multiplier against vils, like on nilla. It isnt an enormous change, but it does make uhlans less interesting to trade vs vils. I usually know that whenever a vil is a bit too far from tc I can just sacrify 1 uhlan if my opponent tries to defend the vil with his cav and still kill the vil, and imo losing 1 uhlan to kill 1 vil is a good trade. If they had a 0.75 multiplier, maybe we wouldnt be able to trade like that. For info, it would make them need 7 hits to kill a cdb vs 5 atm, and 10 hits to kill an upgraded vil vs 7 atm

You can try to punish them in colonial, but you know as well as me that it doesnt work if the german plays well.
Yeah Im 100% for the multiplier vs vills, lol, when I see a guy with 2 uhlans who can kill a vill in 3 hits, I just cry.

But tbh that would help a lot in team but that wouldnt be enough in 1v1. Except japan/brit, you cant really beat a ger without outplaying him.
What we need to do is either to let other civs punishing their age up (but that would be an over nerf) or nerf their fortress timings, that way, civs like french or iro would follow them in age 3.

garja wrote:btw germans are good without TP too. TP is an extra.

They will be worse than french without the tp.

bramboy wrote:2 uhlans with every shipment is just a broken bonus' I''ve been saying this since my pr15 nilla days. 2 uhlan basically represent 1-2 villager kills which means all of your shipments basically have +1/2 vills. Can you imagine India with a fast ageup politician to age 3 and a better age 3?

India is better than german.

diarouga wrote:

kaiserklein wrote:You can punish them in colonial tho. Well it depends on the civ you are playing, but as french for example you really can

I think, if we really want to nerf germany (Im not convinced about that tho), we should start with a multiplier against vils, like on nilla. It isnt an enormous change, but it does make uhlans less interesting to trade vs vils. I usually know that whenever a vil is a bit too far from tc I can just sacrify 1 uhlan if my opponent tries to defend the vil with his cav and still kill the vil, and imo losing 1 uhlan to kill 1 vil is a good trade. If they had a 0.75 multiplier, maybe we wouldnt be able to trade like that. For info, it would make them need 7 hits to kill a cdb vs 5 atm, and 10 hits to kill an upgraded vil vs 7 atm

You can try to punish them in colonial, but you know as well as me that it doesnt work if the german plays well.
Yeah Im 100% for the multiplier vs vills, lol, when I see a guy with 2 uhlans who can kill a vill in 3 hits, I just cry.

But tbh that would help a lot in team but that wouldnt be enough in 1v1. Except japan/brit, you cant really beat a ger without outplaying him.
What we need to do is either to let other civs punishing their age up (but that would be an over nerf) or nerf their fortress timings, that way, civs like french or iro would follow them in age 3.

I think india,sioux,aztec,china,otto,iro and japan can deal with them.

bobabu wrote:

bramboy wrote:2 uhlans with every shipment is just a broken bonus' Ive been saying this since my pr15 nilla days. 2 uhlan basically represent 1-2 villager kills which means all of your shipments basically have +1/2 vills. Can you imagine India with a fast ageup politician to age 3 and a better age 3?

India is better than german.

India isnt.