Russians Discussion Thread

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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by deleted_user0 »

+100c would be better tbh. Can help with market or saved for all in rush as half a musk batch. Without significantly aktering their age up as 100f would do.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

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Post by momuuu »

Darwin_ wrote:Maybe 255 food is overdoing it. What about +1 wood crate?

Thats way better???
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Goodspeed »

Yeah that would make them top civ instantly.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by lordraphael »

Imo +200 wood
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

Probably just +100f. 255f vills was too much in the long term.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by deleted_user0 »

they honestly dont need +100f...
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Goodspeed »

+100f is also better than 255f vills. In that case it might even be viable to go for a 5v age up and get 5 coss in the enemy's base at 2:20 on 700f starts with like a 60f treasure in base or something. You could be aging to colonial at 0:20 game time...

I don't think we should be buffing this civ again unless we have a very good reason to. The competitive community seems rather divided about whether Russia is strong or weak and as long as that is the case they will stay as they are.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by __Uhlan__ »

+100f on a food start + good food tres could idleless 11 and have 5 cos in enemy base so early like gs said while still maintaining vill production & getting a tp/market ups from market with 400w.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Darwin_ »

Jerom wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:Maybe 255 food is overdoing it. What about +1 wood crate?

Thats way better???

Yeah youre right :P I like Umeu's +1 coin crate idea more I think. I think the +1 food crate would be good if it wasn't as abusable as GS and Uhlan pointed out. Maybe have them automatically start with like 30-50 food in bank? It would give them a slightly faster first batch of vills and slightly less idle time after the last batch.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

How's that abusable? To rush fast? That's already what Russia does. I mean either you agree that Russia needs a buff and then 100f is just fine or simply the civ doesnt need buffs. It is clear that Russia problem - if any at all - is being a bit slow in the current meta. In mid game they are fine and overall (considering unita, eco, and unique techs) they are objectively one of the best civs in the game.
100g is going to give them a market every time (200g is akward btw) whuch is indeeed a buff but it is forcing and doesnt have a coherent logic. You could make the same argument for any other civ that is not super efficient early in at the moment, like iro or india
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Atomiswave »

Is it possible to add 50 resource value starting crates? Maybe some civs need just that, middle ground value.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by pecelot »

First, you would need to create such an object.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

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Post by tedere12 »

that is possible, on vanilla mod ports start with 50 wood on their bank
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by momuuu »

Garja wrote:How's that abusable? To rush fast? That's already what Russia does. I mean either you agree that Russia needs a buff and then 100f is just fine or simply the civ doesnt need buffs. It is clear that Russia problem - if any at all - is being a bit slow in the current meta. In mid game they are fine and overall (considering unita, eco, and unique techs) they are objectively one of the best civs in the game.
100g is going to give them a market every time (200g is akward btw) whuch is indeeed a buff but it is forcing and doesnt have a coherent logic. You could make the same argument for any other civ that is not super efficient early in at the moment, like iro or india

Your logic isnt coherent either. 100f buff isnt abusable because already rushes becuase aging 1 minute earlier doesnt change anything right garja?
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Atomiswave »

pecelot wrote:First, you would need to create such an object.


Can it look the same with different value?
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

Jerom wrote:
Garja wrote:How's that abusable? To rush fast? That's already what Russia does. I mean either you agree that Russia needs a buff and then 100f is just fine or simply the civ doesnt need buffs. It is clear that Russia problem - if any at all - is being a bit slow in the current meta. In mid game they are fine and overall (considering unita, eco, and unique techs) they are objectively one of the best civs in the game.
100g is going to give them a market every time (200g is akward btw) whuch is indeeed a buff but it is forcing and doesnt have a coherent logic. You could make the same argument for any other civ that is not super efficient early in at the moment, like iro or india

Your logic isnt coherent either. 100f buff isnt abusable because already rushes becuase aging 1 minute earlier doesnt change anything right garja?

1 min earlier? You mean with 11v? That is already a big drawback and if the civs gets too good with that it means it is alerady fine. 100f is the minimal direct buff you can give to Russia. If that's too much then anything is. 100g might not be abusable (btw rushing is not a bad thing at all) in that sense but it is a significant buff and also completely random.
Oh btw 5v age up is not good unless it is deccan or something. You still need wood for bh etc. Could still be a viable option but given the drawback I dont see anything wrong with that.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by pecelot »

Atomiswave wrote:
pecelot wrote:First, you would need to create such an object.


Can it look the same with different value?

I'm not sure, though Tedere's comment is enough here I think :)
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

Fixed 600f?
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Darwin_ »

Garja wrote:
Jerom wrote:
Garja wrote:How's that abusable? To rush fast? That's already what Russia does. I mean either you agree that Russia needs a buff and then 100f is just fine or simply the civ doesnt need buffs. It is clear that Russia problem - if any at all - is being a bit slow in the current meta. In mid game they are fine and overall (considering unita, eco, and unique techs) they are objectively one of the best civs in the game.
100g is going to give them a market every time (200g is akward btw) whuch is indeeed a buff but it is forcing and doesnt have a coherent logic. You could make the same argument for any other civ that is not super efficient early in at the moment, like iro or india

Your logic isnt coherent either. 100f buff isnt abusable because already rushes becuase aging 1 minute earlier doesnt change anything right garja?

1 min earlier? You mean with 11v? That is already a big drawback and if the civs gets too good with that it means it is alerady fine. 100f is the minimal direct buff you can give to Russia. If that's too much then anything is. 100g might not be abusable (btw rushing is not a bad thing at all) in that sense but it is a significant buff and also completely random.
Oh btw 5v age up is not good unless it is deccan or something. You still need wood for bh etc. Could still be a viable option but given the drawback I dont see anything wrong with that.

But if you are aging with 11 vills and no idle time it's not a drawback as you will most likely have a shipment ready to go when you would hit colonial, and you weren't idling your tc at all. Yes you missed out on gathering with 3 vills for 100 seconds in the early game, but you will most likely be able to easily make up that defecit and much more by having 5 cossacks in their base 50 seconds earlier. If you have units in their base that early, you could not only kill villagers, but you would most definitely delay their first military building significantly. 100 food is too much, I definitely agree. I think atomis is definitely on to something that some civs need like a 50 food crate or something instead of a full 100 food crate.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

Again, if that's too much then civ is fine and we are all arguing changes for the sake of it.
I suspect this is the case in fact.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by __Uhlan__ »

Garja wrote:How's that abusable? To rush fast? That's already what Russia does. I mean either you agree that Russia needs a buff and then 100f is just fine or simply the civ doesnt need buffs. It is clear that Russia problem - if any at all - is being a bit slow in the current meta. In mid game they are fine and overall (considering unita, eco, and unique techs) they are objectively one of the best civs in the game.
100g is going to give them a market every time (200g is akward btw) whuch is indeeed a buff but it is forcing and doesnt have a coherent logic. You could make the same argument for any other civ that is not super efficient early in at the moment, like iro or india


In the current meta iro and India could use buffs, India maybe not so much of a buff but maybe a rework, it's horrible that the civ is so much worse on a 100g start then they are on a wood start. and iro is just not strong imo so bad examples to use. But I don't think Russia needs any buff at all, there a fine civ good in some matchups and not so much in others, just a tier 2 solid civ.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by pecelot »

I don't think a specific crate start is a reason for a complete rework of a civilisation, rather think of fixing the resources at the beginning, like in China's case.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Darwin_ »

pecelot wrote:I don't think a specific crate start is a reason for a complete rework of a civilisation, rather think of fixing the resources at the beginning, like in China's case.

But fixing india's crates is more complicated than say, for china because of India's rushing potential.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

__Uhlan__ wrote:
Garja wrote:How's that abusable? To rush fast? That's already what Russia does. I mean either you agree that Russia needs a buff and then 100f is just fine or simply the civ doesnt need buffs. It is clear that Russia problem - if any at all - is being a bit slow in the current meta. In mid game they are fine and overall (considering unita, eco, and unique techs) they are objectively one of the best civs in the game.
100g is going to give them a market every time (200g is akward btw) whuch is indeeed a buff but it is forcing and doesnt have a coherent logic. You could make the same argument for any other civ that is not super efficient early in at the moment, like iro or india


In the current meta iro and India could use buffs, India maybe not so much of a buff but maybe a rework, it's horrible that the civ is so much worse on a 100g start then they are on a wood start. and iro is just not strong imo so bad examples to use. But I don't think Russia needs any buff at all, there a fine civ good in some matchups and not so much in others, just a tier 2 solid civ.


Iro and India are perfectly fine overall, altho not with the same lategame potential of let's say French, Jap or Russia. They are a bit slow like Russia but considerably better in midgame. In any case what I meant is that they don't enjoy a good reputation of very strong civs just like Russia (questionable but that's not the point here). And in fact a random 100g addition would improve their start (allowing a market everytime) but it would be completely random, again, just like in Russia case.
I agree Russia is fine in current meta. Or rather it ranges between fine and underwhelming depending on the MU and specific start (crates+treasures). A generic buff would be wrongful.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by momuuu »

Garja wrote:Again, if that's too much then civ is fine and we are all arguing changes for the sake of it.
I suspect this is the case in fact.

This does not make logical sense garja. You seem to think it does but it doesnt.

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