Turkey breeze
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ESO: Breezebrothers

10 Dec 2016, 08:32

Aizamk wrote:That, or flamethrower rush.

On water maps I quite favour the petard FI too. Also sometimes the horse artillery FI can work, but not always.

Im so much confused... are u a japan or sweden??????
Garja wrote:Why did you just say to him you beat me? Don't Show my games, Don't talk my games, Don't chat my games

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Diarouga wrote:Every top players react like a child when they loose waterbrothers.
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Poland pecelot
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ESO: Pezet
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10 Dec 2016, 12:17

@breeze oh boi am I confused about the quality of your recent posts, please stop talking shit everywhere
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Turkey breeze
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Posts: 1178
ESO: Breezebrothers

10 Dec 2016, 19:17

pecelot wrote:@breeze oh boi am I confused about the quality of your recent posts, please stop talking shit everywhere

what do you define as shit? he claimed to be sweden before and i just asked a question because i was confused
Garja wrote:Why did you just say to him you beat me? Don't Show my games, Don't talk my games, Don't chat my games

_H2O wrote: Hey! I Courage you to play fairly, And have fun from this game!

Diarouga wrote:Every top players react like a child when they loose waterbrothers.
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Italy gamevideo113
Dragoon
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ESO: gamevideo112

06 Jun 2017, 09:39

What if Standard Army Hitpoints became Standard Army Combat (kind of like Boyars)? Would a colonial play with china be more viable?
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Tunisia iLolicon
Crossbow
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ESO: iLolicon

18 Sep 2017, 21:03

Buff changdao Swordsman's melee multiplier vs cav. or give them some hand resist.
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Poland pecelot
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20 Sep 2017, 03:06

They already have 20% vs. Melee :!:
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United States of America Darwin_
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Location: United States

21 Sep 2017, 14:45

They also don't have lower hand attack in cover mode iirc unless the patch fixed that
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Netherlands momuuu
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Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

21 Sep 2017, 16:02

The patch fixed that.

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Belgium LegalPenguin
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Location: Leuven

21 Oct 2017, 11:54

Aizamk wrote:That, or flamethrower rush.


Teach me, master
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United States of America Inst
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ESO: Inst

01 Nov 2017, 05:40

What's the difference between the patch and standard? IMO, the only thing China really needs is to fix Keshiks. Ming Army is barely better than Old Han Army vs Cavalry, so China lacks a pure anti-cavalry army, which the Ming Army is supposed to be. Keshiks are theoretically incredibly broken units, but what might improve them would be to lower their health and increase their attack, making them more competitive with Qiang Pikemen in terms of damage output. They're fragile as hell anyways, but they don't deal enough damage to compensate.

See, here's the problem. Do the number crunching, and what do you find? The trick is that China does not actually build units, excepting its artillery pieces, it builds armies. The armies are balanced as a whole: Old Han Army, for instance, is essentially a musketeer, not a skirmisher army, dealing 20% less anti-cavalry damage for about the same cost as 4 musketeers. The Ming Army is more of an anti-raiding army, using a combo of pikes and fast ranged cavalry to put ranged cavalry down. But you know the problem with the Ming Army? When it comes to direct anti-cavalry capability, it actually has approximately the same, or a little less, anti-cavalry ability as the Old Han Army. So you have a choice of crappy Musketeers in the Old Han Army, or a mix of anti-raider and anti-cavalry in the Ming Army.

I played a game recently where I decided to sit tier 2 and spam flamethrowers. My opponent predictably carded hussars and I switched to Old Han / Ming Army, but China simply doesn't have a real anti-cavalry banner army. Ming basically needs a third pikeman to be competitive as anti-cavalry; as is, when it's just as effective as an old han army for cost, it's only worth it based on having a different resource structure than old han army.
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Italy gamevideo113
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01 Nov 2017, 08:46

Inst wrote:What's the difference between the patch and standard? IMO, the only thing China really needs is to fix Keshiks. Ming Army is barely better than Old Han Army vs Cavalry, so China lacks a pure anti-cavalry army, which the Ming Army is supposed to be. Keshiks are theoretically incredibly broken units, but what might improve them would be to lower their health and increase their attack, making them more competitive with Qiang Pikemen in terms of damage output. They're fragile as hell anyways, but they don't deal enough damage to compensate.

See, here's the problem. Do the number crunching, and what do you find? The trick is that China does not actually build units, excepting its artillery pieces, it builds armies. The armies are balanced as a whole: Old Han Army, for instance, is essentially a musketeer, not a skirmisher army, dealing 20% less anti-cavalry damage for about the same cost as 4 musketeers. The Ming Army is more of an anti-raiding army, using a combo of pikes and fast ranged cavalry to put ranged cavalry down. But you know the problem with the Ming Army? When it comes to direct anti-cavalry capability, it actually has approximately the same, or a little less, anti-cavalry ability as the Old Han Army. So you have a choice of crappy Musketeers in the Old Han Army, or a mix of anti-raider and anti-cavalry in the Ming Army.

I played a game recently where I decided to sit tier 2 and spam flamethrowers. My opponent predictably carded hussars and I switched to Old Han / Ming Army, but China simply doesn't have a real anti-cavalry banner army. Ming basically needs a third pikeman to be competitive as anti-cavalry; as is, when it's just as effective as an old han army for cost, it's only worth it based on having a different resource structure than old han army.


Keshiks are a fine unit actually for their cost, if you manage to mass them up they can do very well against cavalry. The problem is massing them, since you can only train them in armies. It is also awkward to have your anti cavalry split between melee and ranged units and this is what probably makes you think that the Ming army is not a good anticav army. Keep in mind that chinese units are all weak, so you need to outmass your opponent on top of making the right unit counters in order to win fights decisively (1 ming army costs barely more than 2 hussars).
Anyway i don't think that it is in the EP balance team's plans to fix colonial china anytime soon unfortunately.
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United States of America Inst
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01 Nov 2017, 11:11

The problem is the army, not the unit. Keshiks, for cost and with cards, actually outdamage most other cavalry units. But because they're trained either with the Mongolian Army or with the Ming Army, they don't provide strong anti-cavalry support for Standard armies or Flamethrower masses, which have glaring cavalry vulnerabilities.

Thing is, Keshiks deal 18.6 dpsr with scourge in Colonial, and they don't have wonky scaling factors. This makes them the best dragoon-class unit in terms of damage for resources, even better than Zamburaks. However, Qiang deal 38.9 dpsr without any cards in Colonial, and they penetrate ranged resistance. This means that Keshiks are good when they move ahead of the main army and snipe enemy Hussars, but they're bad when you need to protect units like Chuks or Flamethrowers from enemy engagement.

The advantage of Keshiks, however, is that they get their bonuses against all cavalry, implying that they'd beat Dragoons in exchanges. But to get to a mass of Keshiks is difficult, moreover, Keshiks are atrocious as strategic units, since their reliance on multipliers means that they're atrocious against anything but cavalry, and their siege attack is too low. So, it's roughly better to get Old Han Armies, especially after Old Han Reforms, as anti-cavalry.
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China fei123456
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01 Nov 2017, 11:22

china has pikes and redcoats to do anti-cav job in age 2. keshik are a bit weak, but it's not so bad.
steppe rider is the problem. you can only have 2 steppe in a batch (means 1 hussar), and you don't have another unit to replace them.
10 rattan shields are not bad, but it's far from enough.
that means, after 7 steppe died, china can only train a colonial army with chukonu+pike/keshik/redcoat, which is far from "complete". what will you do if you play colonial with an european civ, but are not allowed to train hussars? it's called "unplayable"!
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"Aoe3 is dying, and cheating keeps it alive."
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Germany yemshi
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Posts: 1736

01 Nov 2017, 11:42

There's still the 8 cossacks.
Garja wrote: Players on the RE are bad, laggers and they're lazy asses that would sell their mother for a couple of Elo points. It's not just my opinion, it's a fact (which I guess is the same thing, hence your confusion) that the EP is better.

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China fei123456
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Location: Alderaan

01 Nov 2017, 11:43

but the russian ally bonus, vill training boost, is totally useless in age 2.
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"Aoe3 is dying, and cheating keeps it alive."
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Germany yemshi
Howdah
Posts: 1736

01 Nov 2017, 11:46

It is indeed. But what options do you have?
Garja wrote: Players on the RE are bad, laggers and they're lazy asses that would sell their mother for a couple of Elo points. It's not just my opinion, it's a fact (which I guess is the same thing, hence your confusion) that the EP is better.

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Italy gamevideo113
Dragoon
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ESO: gamevideo112

01 Nov 2017, 12:21

Ming army should be 2 keshiks+2 steppes imo (or something like that), but it would probably be too strong, so idk. Moreover that would change a lot how the game is played, so i don't think it will even be considered.
Russian consulate is also bad, you can use it to get cossacks but you need to change it asap because 10% faster vills is useless and also the blockhouse doesn't give you much.
If the EP team doesn't think that the chinese colonial age should be changed then there is little point in discussing the possibilities imo.
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United States of America Inst
Musketeer
Posts: 67
ESO: Inst

01 Nov 2017, 13:10

Consulate units are nice to have, but they're essentially the equivalent of a shipment; using availability equivalency, one export is equal to 15 wood in the best case scenario. Using export rate equivalency, one export is equivalent to 2.78 wood in the best case scenario and equal to 7.44 food in the worst case scenario. In general, export shipments are nice to have, but not something you can depend on spamming.
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Serbia Atomiswave
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Posts: 722

01 Nov 2017, 14:45

One of China's main weak spots is low anti cav potential, especially against heavy cav. Pikes are useless in age 3, Keshisks too weak, while Changdaos are just not enough. Manchu's are very good merc shipment, but one can't always afford them. I think buff to China's anti cav potential is in order...
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New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 6875
ESO: Funnu
Location: Ramadanistan

01 Nov 2017, 15:41

Try Forbidden Army for anti-cav. It is true, though, that Qiang and Changdao are both much weaker relative to the arquebusier and chu-ko-nu, for example. The Keshik is a somewhat similar case. It almost seems as though it's intentional, doesn't it?
sudmakmak wrote:This patch Keshik don't have buff anti cavalry = noob patch2.0
and don't have nerf hard japan = noob patch2.0
because all more noob player at this patch = noob logic.
or they maybe have boyfriend.(japanese boyfriend fuck your ass them)
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China fei123456
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Location: Alderaan

01 Nov 2017, 16:12

Atomiswave wrote:One of China's main weak spots is low anti cav potential, especially against heavy cav. Pikes are useless in age 3, Keshisks too weak, while Changdaos are just not enough. Manchu's are very good merc shipment, but one can't always afford them. I think buff to China's anti cav potential is in order...

imo it's china's opponent who should focus more on his anticav job :hmm:
tons of forbidden army, backed up with monk, changdao, redcoat, are just too hard to deal with. cuirs are good, but 60s training time makes them less useful in this situation (forbidden army takes only 29s to train in RE, and 33s in EP: still very fast).
"Why don't you dare to play with me if you already know who I am? You can never beat me even if I don't cheat."
"Aoe3 is dying, and cheating keeps it alive."
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Serbia Atomiswave
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01 Nov 2017, 16:14

fei123456 wrote:
Atomiswave wrote:One of China's main weak spots is low anti cav potential, especially against heavy cav. Pikes are useless in age 3, Keshisks too weak, while Changdaos are just not enough. Manchu's are very good merc shipment, but one can't always afford them. I think buff to China's anti cav potential is in order...

imo it's china's opponent who should focus more on his anticav job :hmm:


Ye, meteors and fails are very good cav, but how many times have you seen China lose to mass cuirs or even mass huss. I saw it too many times.....
Great Britain Hazza54321
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Posts: 3614

13 Nov 2017, 14:30

Need european army, 3skirms 2goons batches
Venividivici_w: i heard h20 signed up last minute. Prob waited for roby not signing up so he wouldnt get smashed again
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China fei123456
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13 Nov 2017, 14:48

Atomiswave wrote:
fei123456 wrote:
Atomiswave wrote:One of China's main weak spots is low anti cav potential, especially against heavy cav. Pikes are useless in age 3, Keshisks too weak, while Changdaos are just not enough. Manchu's are very good merc shipment, but one can't always afford them. I think buff to China's anti cav potential is in order...

imo it's china's opponent who should focus more on his anticav job :hmm:


Ye, meteors and fails are very good cav, but how many times have you seen China lose to mass cuirs or even mass huss. I saw it too many times.....

nope. i beat cuirass too many times (with chinese cav), even snowww's france.
cuir are strong but they train too slowly (60s a batch, while china needs 29s only). if you don't have stagecoach eco, starting cuir vs china is not a wise choice.
"Why don't you dare to play with me if you already know who I am? You can never beat me even if I don't cheat."
"Aoe3 is dying, and cheating keeps it alive."
——Chuan Chen(陈川)
Germany lordraphael
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Posts: 1809

15 Nov 2017, 22:29

fei123456 wrote:
Atomiswave wrote:
Show hidden quotes


Ye, meteors and fails are very good cav, but how many times have you seen China lose to mass cuirs or even mass huss. I saw it too many times.....

nope. i beat cuirass too many times (with chinese cav), even snowww's france.
cuir are strong but they train too slowly (60s a batch, while china needs 29s only). if you don't have stagecoach eco, starting cuir vs china is not a wise choice.

its mostly about the timing french has to be cautious in the early game because the shipments of china can temporarily compensate for the lack of anti cav in age 3. But once you get a decent mass of cuirs backed by falcs and maybe even have CC on the cuirs there is little china can do.
breeze wrote:they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.

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