Goodspeed wrote:umeu wrote:Mitoe wrote:umeu wrote:Mitoe wrote:I think Old Han Reforms is mostly fine now that you don't have to pay for the card. Perhaps the cost increase needs to be tweaked down to 20% or 15%, but in general this card should not equal a free win for China, like it did on previous patches.
there's simply no reason to send it now. The 1000f was never really an impediment, so taking it out is totally irrelevant if what you get for it is still not useful. it should indeed be tweaked, in that case it's still not a free win but atleast there would be a reason to send it. Right now, wood just easily runs out. And the territorial units are better, not to mention they actually can be made infinitely, whereas wood will run out at some point. The +4 range that territorial skirs have just make them so much more superior, as well as the fact that territorial armies have a combat upgrade. On top of that, territorial armies have better synergy with the cav army, so there's no need to have awkward macro. Simply 0 reason to not make them on EP when u IV.
Coin runs out significantly sooner, unless you're making rice paddies for some reason?
The 1000f was definitely a problem on previous iterations of EP. I think it's worth it in a lot of games right now, but Territorial is better if you want the tempo in early Industrial.
on ep maybe, because 50/50 is worthless,
It's 50/25 right now. I wouldn't say sending a card to get imperial stats on 2 units is "worthless". Yes it makes your units more expensive but this is a core feature of the card which makes it better the more units you already have on the field.
In any case, worthless seems overstating it. It's not an autowin anymore, and it shouldn't be. Could tweak to 60/30 though.
it's worthless in the sense that you don't want to be making those units. If they were your standard units, then yes, I'd say it's totally fine and not worthless at all. But because they are not units that you would normally make, they have to become better than the units you would normally make, or it's just not worth to send that card, that's what I meant with worthless.
For euro civs, a card like this would actually make more sense, because when mines run out, having a card that boosts your archaic units to become better than your normal units, is actually a great asset in fringe situations. That's because plantations are just so expensive, and skirs cost a lot of coin. But for china this isn't the case, so you might as well make paddies + send a 15% combat upgrade on your territorial instead of sending of sending old han.
And with 50%-25% they're simply not good enough to warrant making them over territorial. This is because of things that don't really factor into the card (upgrades, shadow tech, range, resistance and combo/macro synergy, as well as infinite res mechanic) So yeah, they it needs tweaking. If it was 50-25 and +2 range for CKN and +10% MR for the pike, then it would props become worth it in some cases.