French Discussion Thread

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France [Armag] diarouga
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

knusch wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:Last game I played on the re, I had a gold start, I didn't get any treasures and still managed to age 13 with hunting dogs, no way you can't age 14 lol.
This nerf is to prevent the 13 age up and make France a harder civ to play because now you need some macro to execute your bo.


would highly appreciate if u could spent idk 20-30 mins tryin the different cratestarts now and show me the recs of 14v age up (market/hd or tp)....

Ok I will.
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

Kaiserklein wrote:Yeah not sure I understand
ovi12 wrote:
zoom wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:For the record it's harder to market on 300f 100w than on 200f 100w 100g. And even with 200f 100w 100g, you'll have to put instantly 3-4 cdbs on food (otherwise you can prod only 1 cdb), which means you get hunt dogs pretty late and you might have to age 15 (or get a lot of idle time) if you don't get a good treasure, just like germany sometimes has to age 18.
Ofc it doesn't mean france is useless, but it's just that, as I said, it makes france even more of a greedy semi ff civ. I feel like we should rather nerf their middle game somehow, instead of their early game. The goon nerf goes in that way and I guess it's good, we should probs find another middle/late game nerf like that.
Please explain how a coin spawn makes it harder to early Market than a coin spawn.
What do you mean? He said 300f 100w and 200f 100w 100g. The gold spawn is more VS
My bad entirely. What I mean to say is this:

"Please explain how a food spawn makes it harder to early Market than a coin spawn." While the coin spawn is indeed more VS, half of it is irrelevant given the condition on which we are discussing. 100f is more VS than 50c.
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by DaRkNiTe1698 »

13v was a good choice against some civs who aged really fast as iro or otto, wasn't it? Now that those civ aren't scary anymore, aging with 14v seems to be safe
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by knusch »

zoom wrote:"Please explain how a food spawn makes it harder to early Market than a coin spawn." While the coin spawn is indeed more VS, half of it is irrelevant given the condition on which we are discussing. 100f is more VS than 50c.


u trade coin for wood in market....
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by Jaeger »

zoom wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Yeah not sure I understand
ovi12 wrote:
Show hidden quotes
What do you mean? He said 300f 100w and 200f 100w 100g. The gold spawn is more VS
My bad entirely. What I mean to say is this:

"Please explain how a food spawn makes it harder to early Market than a coin spawn." While the coin spawn is indeed more VS, half of it is irrelevant given the condition on which we are discussing. 100f is more VS than 50c.

Yeah like Knusch said, you gather 75c more, buy 100w with with 125, and use the rest 50 to get HD. You also need to gather 50w for HD. So you need to gather 50w 75c and "100f", as opposed to 150w 50c on a food start. Not only is 100g more VS than 100f, but trading at the market nets you some more VS (maybe slightly less then 10 or so?) because 125g is less VS than 100w.
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

knusch wrote:
zoom wrote:"Please explain how a food spawn makes it harder to early Market than a coin spawn." While the coin spawn is indeed more VS, half of it is irrelevant given the condition on which we are discussing. 100f is more VS than 50c.


u trade coin for wood in market....
Assuming you do, wouldn't it barely make a difference?
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

ovi12 wrote:
zoom wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Yeah not sure I understand
Show hidden quotes
My bad entirely. What I mean to say is this:

"Please explain how a food spawn makes it harder to early Market than a coin spawn." While the coin spawn is indeed more VS, half of it is irrelevant given the condition on which we are discussing. 100f is more VS than 50c.

Yeah like Knusch said, you gather 75c more, buy 100w with with 125, and use the rest 50 to get HD. You also need to gather 50w for HD. So you need to gather 50w 75c and "100f", as opposed to 150w 50c on a food start. Not only is 100g more VS than 100f, but trading at the market nets you some more VS (maybe slightly less then 10 or so?) because 125g is less VS than 100w.
125c is more VS than 100w...
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

DaRkNiTe1698 wrote:13v was a good choice against some civs who aged really fast as iro or otto, wasn't it? Now that those civ aren't scary anymore, aging with 14v seems to be safe

Aging 13 was good in every situations lol. It means that you have your TP sooner, so more exp, your shipments sooner, 4v sooner=>more resources, and your army sooner =>better raids.
The fre semi ff is 20 sec faster if you age with 13v vills xD.
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by Jaeger »

zoom wrote:
ovi12 wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Yeah like Knusch said, you gather 75c more, buy 100w with with 125, and use the rest 50 to get HD. You also need to gather 50w for HD. So you need to gather 50w 75c and "100f", as opposed to 150w 50c on a food start. Not only is 100g more VS than 100f, but trading at the market nets you some more VS (maybe slightly less then 10 or so?) because 125g is less VS than 100w.
125c is more VS than 100w...


Yeah youre right, everyone said that buying wood is cost effective for the first few times, but its only so if you have placermines and no gangsaw. Anyway the 100g vs vs the 100f vs greatly outweiggs it anyway
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiserklein »

Garja wrote:Because cdbs move faster and they train slower (and they're 5) so you get housed two vills later. Also the hunting dogs naturally affects more vills from the start (and you already start with 6.25 vills).
Brits can't really market with 200f 200w (they can with 300f 200w I guess but that's rather easy for 300w 100f French too), they would need to chop way too much wood and delay the manor (or delay the market which is also bad). Brits 300w is obviously the equivalent of French 200w so doesn't count. In any case brit market is also rather easy if the aim is 17v age up which is already a little concession in the current meta. Germans get housed earlier and basically have same crates as French so they definitely don't do it better.

But you shouldn't be housed either way lol, and the speed thing doesn't really matter. They do have 6.25 vils, but again, compared to 6 vils, that's not super relevant. On the other hand, when they start with 200f, they're fucked because they can't prod. So not sure it's better than ger, probs close either way. And it's definitely worse than brits, because brits start with an extra 65w (and soon a free vil) basically. Also I'm pretty sure 200w 200f start doesn't exist for brits, it's 200w 300f. And it's really not that easy for france to market on 100w 300f lol, if you get zero treasure you'll probs have to age 15. Realistically though, you do get a few treasures, but usually you still have significant idle time.


HeatitUP_ wrote:I think instead of 600 wood, Germans need to ship palatine settlements so they really don't have to worry about losing houses. Germans used to pwn France and I think they still do because of shipments and they always have more army mass. The only downside is the slow age for Germans but with two free ulhan and treasures it's always better.

You usually don't really ship 600w as germany anyway, because you want to age to fortress rather fast and don't stay colo long enough to send that kind of shipment. 700w is usually enough.
About palatine settlements, it's just too greedy, generally speaking. In some rare match ups the card can be viable, doing 3 sw / 700w / palatine can work against civs like japan or china (or overbooming brits ?), but not sure it's the best choice. If you make an outlaw semi (which is sometimes very decent, if you get goons or renegados/thugees in the saloon) and send it first card, the card is nice. Basically, it allows you to prod very cost-efficient units in saloon (90g for a renegado is realistically really cheap) without being bothered by the insane amounts of population they need. And the card will still be useful for the following of the game, so it's really nice. Early on it lets you prod good units cheaply, and later on it can be worth up to 1200w.


ovi12 wrote:
zoom wrote:125c is more VS than 100w...


Yeah youre right, everyone said that buying wood is cost effective for the first few times, but its only so if you have placermines and no gangsaw. Anyway the 100g vs vs the 100f vs greatly outweiggs it anyway

But realistically, that's more or less the case. If you collected 150w for hunt dogs + market, you wouldn't be gathering it with gang saw. It would be unupgraded wood. On the other hand, your 100g on the floor are basically "placer mines gold". Why ? Because if you spend it for market + hunt dogs, you'll have to gather it again later (to prod units), with placer mines this time. So you will indeed have placer mines VS no gang saw, which means trading in market is efficient. It's true that the extra 75g won't be gathered using placer mines though, but in the case we were discussing with garja it was about having gold treas in base so you shouldn't gather a lot of coin anyway.
And even if you do gather coin, it's still better than keeping 50g on the floor that won't be invested until colonial age... It's basically a waste of VS early on, you chop extra wood and keep gold on the floor for nothing.
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

Kaiserklein wrote:But you shouldn't be housed either way lol, and the speed thing doesn't really matter. They do have 6.25 vils, but again, compared to 6 vils, that's not super relevant. On the other hand, when they start with 200f, they're fucked because they can't prod. So not sure it's better than ger, probs close either way. And it's definitely worse than brits, because brits start with an extra 65w (and soon a free vil) basically. Also I'm pretty sure 200w 200f start doesn't exist for brits, it's 200w 300f. And it's really not that easy for france to market on 100w 300f lol, if you get zero treasure you'll probs have to age 15. Realistically though, you do get a few treasures, but usually you still have significant idle time.


Regardless of how much difference cdbs make compared to other vills, there is simply no way that French early market is less efficient than any other civ with same crates.
It seems like you never did that wiht a TWC civ to see how worse it is in comparison.
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiserklein »

I didn't mention twc civs, I was talking about brits. Right now, I'm pretty sure brits just have a better early market.
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

With French 300f 100w, it is possible. Then again Brits have extra 65w, so there isn't anything wrong with that.
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
knusch wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:Last game I played on the re, I had a gold start, I didn't get any treasures and still managed to age 13 with hunting dogs, no way you can't age 14 lol.
This nerf is to prevent the 13 age up and make France a harder civ to play because now you need some macro to execute your bo.


would highly appreciate if u could spent idk 20-30 mins tryin the different cratestarts now and show me the recs of 14v age up (market/hd or tp)....

Ok I will.

Gold start with a 30c treasures, age up time: 4:40
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by knusch »

now actually blow my mind and show me the 200w/200f tp start
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

What's so hard with that? You put all vills to food and then 3-4 on wood for the house. Just wait until 9/10 to send the shipment.
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by knusch »

Garja wrote:What's so hard with that? You put all vills to food and then 3-4 on wood for the house. Just wait until 9/10 to send the shipment.


dude noone wasnt complaining of THAT ONE specific cratestart.... srsly omfg
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

So what does your post mean? If it was sarcasm wasn't really well done.
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by knusch »

apparently u have not played french after the previous update, so dont try telling me that its alright.
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

200f/200w, no treasures, no sheeps, age up time 4:46
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

knusch wrote:apparently u have not played french after the previous update, so dont try telling me that its alright.

Dafuq are you talking about? I just tested 200f/200w TP on Arkansas and clicked age up at 3.13 without a single treasure.
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Yeah, and if you're diarouga you can do it idless, but that's what I said, now you need skill, if you're garja or any other random player then you'll be idled.
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiserklein »

It just depends on the map lol. On a map with those shit fixed hunts, and without a very good early tp, you will have a lot of idle time. Especially in team where early TPs usually give you late xp so you don't have cdbs any earlier. Just try to do idleless 200f/200w early TP without treasures on a map like kamchatka lol
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiserklein »

Garja wrote:
knusch wrote:apparently u have not played french after the previous update, so dont try telling me that its alright.

Dafuq are you talking about? I just tested 200f/200w TP on Arkansas and clicked age up at 3.13 without a single treasure.

Arkansas is probs the esoc map with the best early TP... If you still have 13 seconds of idle time (which is a lot btw) with the best TP it just shows how bad this start is
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Re: French Discussion Thread

Post by knusch »

Garja wrote:
knusch wrote:apparently u have not played french after the previous update, so dont try telling me that its alright.

Dafuq are you talking about? I just tested 200f/200w TP on Arkansas and clicked age up at 3.13 without a single treasure.


try do it when herding your fukn goats on kamchatka

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