Sioux Discussion Thread

iNcog · Post by **iNcog** » 30 Oct 2015, 18:54

This is the Sioux Discussion thread, where several topics concerning this civilization on the ESOC Patch may be discussed. We're looking for feedback on the current state of balance, from the community's standpoint.

fei123456 · Post by **fei123456** » 03 Nov 2015, 00:04

seems everyone forget this lol
i am not sure how to use the cetan bow buff. warhut rush?

momuuu · Post by **momuuu** » 03 Nov 2015, 00:10

I wanna know, how is sioux doing atm? The nerf seems very minor, but seems to outweigh the buff at first glance. Plus esoc maps isnt the best for sioux.

deuxballesman · Post by **deuxballesman** » 01 Dec 2015, 07:36

Do you guys know what strat to use with Sioux atm? The bow riders are slightly nerfed and I felt (wrongly probably) that they were kinda the only way of playing Sioux.
And as Jerom said balanced map aren't the best Sioux could have hoped for either

[Armag] diarouga · Post by **[Armag] diarouga** » 01 Dec 2015, 11:51

Go for a semi ff 4v/700g/700w, then go wakina, rr, ars.

deuxballesman · Post by **deuxballesman** » 01 Dec 2015, 14:14

Ar semi ff then ?

Mr_Bramboy · Post by **Mr_Bramboy** » 01 Dec 2015, 17:46

Sioux is a terrible civ now. A semi isn't viable in basically all matchups because you won't get to fortress intacf.

Mimsy for President · Post by **Mimsy for President** » 01 Dec 2015, 18:00

Mr_Bramboy wrote:Sioux is a terrible civ now. A semi isn't viable in basically all matchups because you won't get to fortress intacf.

Because BRs lost 30hp ?

Mr_Bramboy · Post by **Mr_Bramboy** » 01 Dec 2015, 18:46

Mimsy for President wrote:
Mr_Bramboy wrote:Sioux is a terrible civ now. A semi isn't viable in basically all matchups because you won't get to fortress intacf.

Because BRs lost 30hp ?

Because their semi already wasn't viable and now with this nerf it really isn't, and a colonial isn't viable either anymore.

Bow pike can work but only if your opponent isn't expecting it. Sioux still lacks musketeers and any eco options in colonial

Mimsy for President · Post by **Mimsy for President** » 01 Dec 2015, 19:28

What aspect should be buffed then ?

ps : Please don't say BRs.

thebritish · Post by **thebritish** » 01 Dec 2015, 19:30

Mimsy for President wrote:What aspect should be buffed then ?

ps : Please don't say BRs.

Dog soldier :mrgreen:

[spoiler=joking]buff their fortress play (buff wakinas)[/spoiler]

Mimsy for President · Post by **Mimsy for President** » 01 Dec 2015, 19:51

Wakina rifles are very good. I don't know what you are talking about :/

thebritish · Post by **thebritish** » 01 Dec 2015, 19:55

Mimsy for President wrote:Wakina rifles are very good. I don't know what you are talking about :/

they have 85 base hitpoints

Mimsy for President · Post by **Mimsy for President** » 01 Dec 2015, 20:03

Doesn't matter. You can barely reach them with the cavwall. It's cheap and costs mostly food. (60f 40c)

thebritish · Post by **thebritish** » 01 Dec 2015, 20:07

Mimsy for President wrote:Doesn't matter. You can barely reach them with the cavwall. It's cheap and costs mostly food. (60f 40c)

they should for atleast have more hitpoints/attack or bigger rr (40% instead of 30%)

deuxballesman · Post by **deuxballesman** » 01 Dec 2015, 22:28

Why have Sioux been changed anyway? I understand that they were somehow broken (br op I know) but appart from that they have mediocre eco and need very successfull raiding to overcompensate the lack of 5vils and 2nd tier market ups. I found that they were a fun civ to get familiar with the importance of army mobility and constant raiding.
Br by themselves rarely won the game on their own they needed the support of dog soldiers for the push. So maybe nerfing slightly the dog soldiers instead of the br could have been less detrimental for the Sioux. It is just that it seems that now they are bottom or just before last tier at most (I may be wrong though) ...

momuuu · Post by **momuuu** » 01 Dec 2015, 23:29

I think Sioux showcases why 'minutemen' might be the most ingenious idea the game developers ever came up with. It's very tough if semi ff is all you can do while not having the minutemen to hold of a timing push.

Hazza54321 · Post by **Hazza54321** » 01 Dec 2015, 23:34

wakinas are fine, they have like 106hp or stm not 85 and have 20 attack and cost 100res mostly food, wakinas are a good unit, plus your anti cav is op so you have to outmass them in skirm rather than making cav and wakinas are cost effective

spanky4ever · Post by **spanky4ever** » 02 Dec 2015, 00:37

Wish sioux eco was better. And i wish they could make wakina in age II. The changes that are made, only makes them more broken, in my opinion.

Mimsy for President · Post by **Mimsy for President** » 02 Dec 2015, 00:53

So wakina rifles and bow riders in age II ?

Nah.

[Armag] diarouga · Post by **[Armag] diarouga** » 02 Dec 2015, 06:22

deuxballesman wrote:Why have Sioux been changed anyway? I understand that they were somehow broken (br op I know) but appart from that they have mediocre eco and need very successfull raiding to overcompensate the lack of 5vils and 2nd tier market ups. I found that they were a fun civ to get familiar with the importance of army mobility and constant raiding.
Br by themselves rarely won the game on their own they needed the support of dog soldiers for the push. So maybe nerfing slightly the dog soldiers instead of the br could have been less detrimental for the Sioux. It is just that it seems that now they are bottom or just before last tier at most (I may be wrong though) ...

With mass brs they still win some mu.
I played fre vs ownage's sioux and only won because he took a bad fight, I was close to resign at one point.
He also won prince's fre on the esoc.
Nah, they're not UP and in some mu, china, jap, dutch, port, brit, they can still semi.

deuxballesman · Post by **deuxballesman** » 02 Dec 2015, 09:00

Yes brs are still strong but I feel like -30hp is a bit extreme. After cav hp, combat and elite upgrade they have lost 45hp compared to what they had.
And they can still semi ofc but their age 3 hasn't been boost at all so what can they hope against a 3TC booming, cass and goon spaming port for example. Same goes against a 6 bank dutch

[Armag] diarouga · Post by **[Armag] diarouga** » 02 Dec 2015, 13:55

deuxballesman wrote:Yes brs are still strong but I feel like -30hp is a bit extreme. After cav hp, combat and elite upgrade they have lost 45hp compared to what they had.
And they can still semi ofc but their age 3 hasn't been boost at all so what can they hope against a 3TC booming, cass and goon spaming port for example. Same goes against a 6 bank dutch

On the RE, sioux semi is the most powerful with german semi do trust me, they really don't need a buff

zoom · Post by **zoom** » 02 Dec 2015, 14:35

30HP is just 12%. They are still very strong.

spanky4ever · Post by **spanky4ever** » 02 Dec 2015, 20:20

Sioux already had problems and was rated broken by many. Br was maybe the one thing they had going for them in early play. I really cant understand why BR has been made worse, and at the same time, no ecobost, no minutemen option given (as Jerom pointed out). They could have been given walls!? f.instance. Why should a civ like Iro have walls - and sioux not (as the only civ tht doesn have walls).
The tournaments (spring and summer) we have seen a few good siouxgames, but most of the teamups ended with sioux loosing. For next tournament, I am sad to predict that I think we will se less siouxgames. I hope I'm wrong though

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