Sioux Discussion Thread

[Darwin_]

What about not removing a civ and then creating a new one in a balance patch?

This has actually worked fairly well in other games (civ 5 for example), and I don't think is actually all that insane.

However, I don't think Sioux is that tough of a nut to crack. I think what they need is some sort of bow rider change, a cetan buff, some sort of slight early game eco buff (maybe extra starting vill, 5 vill shipment, or extra wood crate), and then a slight mid/late-game eco buff (I like mustangs buff personally for this). The teepee change was cool and made Sioux a very dynamic civ IMO, but too an extent it also just totally changed the civ.

Personally, I do like some sort of Teepee buff. My personal idea is to extend Teepee range a bit and buff the base HP aura a bit, or possibly making them also buff attack by default. It would also be cool to make teepee's give some wood back after you delete them, as that would allow sioux to have more of a nomadic playstyle, which would help to differentiate them a bit from other civs.

[Hazza54321]

meme civ

[Garja]

a bit

[spanky4ever]

one more updatet patch; no 5, and one more reduction of the original buff you gave Sioux. Next time, I guess we will be back to scratch, and some ppl will finally be happy when Sioux are not compatable anymore.

[Amsel_]

Is Sioux still super weak at the ≈6:00 mark? Over on RE we get absolutely rekt by early game musket rushes.

[spanky4ever]

Is Sioux still super weak at the ≈6:00 mark? Over on RE we get absolutely rekt by early game musket rushes.

The fix they got for sioux with the teepees, was really needed for protection against that full in mush rush, AND for a better eco. Now it seems they are "undoing" it, bit by bit.
And yeah, Sioux is really week on RE for that kind of rush.

[Amsel_]

Is Sioux still super weak at the ≈6:00 mark? Over on RE we get absolutely rekt by early game musket rushes.

The fix they got for sioux with the teepees, was really needed for protection against that full in mush rush, AND for a better eco. Now it seems they are "undoing" it, bit by bit.
And yeah, Sioux is really week on RE for that kind of rush.

The karni/buff teepee thing seems really odd. I get the impression that teepees were supposed to be something you spread around the map, and they helped you get map control. But on EP it looks like they're used for building a wall in your base and turtling. It seems like a change that was made with top level players in mind rather than civ itself. Tinkering is always good, it lets them try and figure out what works.

An idea that might be fun - but not meta friendly - is to have teepees be really OP, and give them their karni/buff effects; let villagers garrison in them, and maybe even give them a small attack; but with the setback that you can't build them within the radius of your starting town center.

[Garja]

Teepees were meant to be used both defensively and offensively. It is fine without any limiting radius.
as for musket rush you should be fine with straight FF on any patch. You will be in age 3 at 6.40 with a WH and a shipment ready.

[zoom]

:mad: one more updatet patch; no 5, and one more reduction of the original buff you gave Sioux. Next time, I guess we will be back to scratch, and some ppl will finally be happy when Sioux are not compatable anymore.

Crying is easy if you ignore the buffs.

[spanky4ever]

:mad: one more updatet patch; no 5, and one more reduction of the original buff you gave Sioux. Next time, I guess we will be back to scratch, and some ppl will finally be happy when Sioux are not compatable anymore.

Crying is easy if you ignore the buffs.

What buffs? >I can only see that you made them worse in this patch and the previous.

[Hazza54321]

LOL

[Kaiserklein]

Well it's true that sioux got kind of nerfed in the 2 last balance patches, but still it's way better than on RE. Aren't you happy about that @spanky4ever ?

[deleted_user0]

just for the lolz.

20 teepees + all 3 cav ups = hero 11k hp. veteran axe rider 2600 hp, veteran br 2300 hp, dogsoldier 5750 hp, wakina 700 hp

LOL

[spanky4ever]

Well it's true that sioux got kind of nerfed in the 2 last balance patches, but still it's way better than on RE. Aren't you happy about that @spanky4ever ?

Im happy that they are still better than on RE, but I am really disapoited that they nerfed them AGAIN, its not that they are being played much in tournaments. I guess that the Goongoon making it to semifinals where just to much for the Euro players So, am I glad; I was, but not sure anymore.
The mustang card is not a big issue imo, but the constantly nerfing of the teepees is pretty annoying

[deleted_user]

"But my radius"

[spanky4ever]

"But my radius"

yeah your super slick

[deleted_user]

"But my radius"

yeah your super slick

slicker than snot on a door knob

[yemshi]

Come on at this point in time sioux just seems... not right. Why won't we just play the...like sioux we had on RE?
As already mentioned numerous times:
give them 5v, they really need that.
nerf BR they are just stupid
buff cetan to be able to compete /not auto lose vs musk rushes
and maybe to look into their starting crates so they can at least go 15v idleless. on ep maps thats usually possible but as another idea.

[Kaiserklein]

Then the civ versing sioux can potentially just turtle forever (especially for civs like jap ports brits etc) with walls towers etc. And sioux just gets outscaled and might have no way to compete. For example masterchif does this lame and it feels just impossible as sioux to do anything against walls and upgraded towers, until he starts to mass a lot of op ashis.
I think it's good that sioux got an eco option now.

[deleted_user0]

that strat masterchif does isnt even good, and sioux can deal with it, although its very boring and hard work. but its with any civ tbh.
sioux does have a weakness to wall turtle on some maps, usually when water is involved or its easy to wall, but on ep maps usually sioux doesnt struggle. they don't need the eco option on the teepees in the early game at all. if u feel like they need one in the late game, simply add it to the card where u get more teepees. now its more teepees + eco boost. not just standard eco boost. its silly tbh.

sioux did need some extra defensive help, and teepees are perfect for that. they were too expensive and useless before. now theyre too op because of the eco boost and the fact u can make 10.

[yemshi]

That strat has never been a so "free-win". Yes, its very strong vs sioux on RE but on Ep you can neither engage the sioux army nor play around it by turtling.

[zoom]

:mad: one more updatet patch; no 5, and one more reduction of the original buff you gave Sioux. Next time, I guess we will be back to scratch, and some ppl will finally be happy when Sioux are not compatable anymore.

Crying is easy if you ignore the buffs.

What buffs? >I can only see that you made them worse in this patch and the previous.

Exactly. Build-limit was reversed. Big buff. Other civilizations were nerfed. Apart from which, my concern isn't "buff Sioux" – it's "balance Sioux"

[Kaiserklein]

that strat masterchif does isnt even good, and sioux can deal with it, although its very boring and hard work. but its with any civ tbh.
sioux does have a weakness to wall turtle on some maps, usually when water is involved or its easy to wall, but on ep maps usually sioux doesnt struggle. they don't need the eco option on the teepees in the early game at all. if u feel like they need one in the late game, simply add it to the card where u get more teepees. now its more teepees + eco boost. not just standard eco boost. its silly tbh.

sioux did need some extra defensive help, and teepees are perfect for that. they were too expensive and useless before. now theyre too op because of the eco boost and the fact u can make 10.

Well masterchif isn't very good so that's probably why. You're not gonna beat a real walls and/or water lamer (for example kynesie) on RE with sioux. You simply won't ever be able to break in his walls or contest the water, unless he fucks up. And then in late game you're usually just behind because you're sioux. And it's not just about late game, but about middle game too.
In early game, sioux would be fine without eco boost I guess, but that means you wouldn't build teepees. And then sioux would again have problems to deal with dumb heavy inf rushes. So yeah we can remove the teepee eco aura, but then you need to both buff sioux lategame somehow and also buff their early colo defense.

[Garja]

I would build teepees if I see a rush and I know I need it. Most of times you don't need it anyway but I gues 1-2 teepees can't hurt if you stay colo anyway.

[Kaiserklein]

So compared to current sioux, you would have less eco because no teepees, and you would still need to invest wood into teepees to hold the rush?