gamevideo113 wrote:momuuu wrote:gamevideo113 wrote:momuuu wrote:gamevideo113 wrote:1 single shipment being 20% better than its counterpart for other civs is a marginal difference; having a unit with probably the highest dps in colonial after abus and the highest mobility considering the warchief, is not really a neglectable thing for a civ.
They have worse dps than musketeers..
Damage per second or damage per shot?
Per second per cost. Instead of throwing skepticism and falsehoods out there you can actually just run the numbers yourself.
Well, when i say dps i actually mean dps, not dps/cost. So yeah, they have way higher dps than musks and you can't deny it. The fact that they cost more doesn't mean a lot since as i said they also have higher hp, mobility and rof (less overkill). And they also have a ranged bonus vs cav. Comparing random stats in a vacuum for two completely different units is useless.
So, Howdahs should be nerfed? I'm not the one randomly comparing things in a vacuum here, I'm saying that Bow riders can be too strong because the sioux civ is not strong without them. You and other people are comparing Bow riders in some empty vacuum where they are 'too strong'. If you then actually take other units in a vacuum and show that bow riders would lose to musketeers cost effectively, then suddenly we have to look at the bigger picture? That seems awfully arbitrary.
Let's actually look at some facts: Sioux, in practise, was probably not overpowered. Sioux needed bow riders to be strong. There's clear evidence for this, just look at the patch changes needed after the bow rider nerf:
[spoiler=sioux changes]
[*]Bow Rider hitpoints decreased to 220 (down from 250).
[*]Cetan Bow hitpoints increased to 100 (up from 90) and speed increased to 4.5 (up from 4).
[*]4 Villagers home-city shipment removed.
[*]5 Villagers home-city shipment added to the Colonial Age (note: added as a separate shipment, not a changed version of the 4 Villagers one â has to be unlocked manually).
[*]Teepee base hitpoints increased to 600 (up from 300).
[*]Teepee gather rate aura boost added (3% per Teepee, range 24).
[*]Teepee hitpoints aura maximum range increased to 18 (up from 12).
[*]War Clubsâ, Cetan Bowsâ and Wakina Riflesâ ability to build Teepees by default added.
[*]Aggressive Policy home-city shipment effect changed â increases the Teepeesâ gather rate aura boost to 5%.
[*]War Chief âheavy cavalryâ unit-tag added.
[/spoiler]
Maybe sioux was too strong on RE, they surely were too weak after straight up nerfing the bow rider like that. First of all, I sincerely doubt sioux was too strong on RE if played on EP maps - never have I seen anyone actually complain about RE sioux balance wise. I get a strong feeling of many people having looked at bow riders either in a vacuum or by pure bias (just read goodspeed's TAD guide for reference). I don't even care about whether they were too strong or too weak. The bow rider nerf wasn't appropriate, and instead of keeping them nerfed and then starting to change everything that made sioux sioux, this change should have been reconsidered - either reverted or toned down by a lot. This is by far the biggest failure of EP - nerfing a unit based on some idle arguments and bias and in the process removing one of the big defining aspects of the civ. Sioux on RE are defined by bow riders. Making bow riders just another standardized unit is insane - especially if there are very few tangible balance considerations with regards to this decision. You can try to look at bow riders only in the vacuum that's specifically beneficial for your cause, but if you look at the bigger picture I don't see how the entire course of balancing with regards to sioux can be justified other than by pure bias. It's sad and I wish I could play RE Sioux on EP - a unique civ with a unique style that was simply removed from the game.