Portuguese Discussion Thread

User avatar
United States of America noissance
Jaeger
Donator 01
Posts: 2031
Joined: Mar 28, 2015
ESO: noissance
Location: United States

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by noissance »

? DM Gameplay will be unbalanced!
Error 404: Signature not found
Australia Hazza54321
Pro Player
Winter Champion 2020 x2Donator 01
Posts: 8049
Joined: May 4, 2015
ESO: PrinceofBabu

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

noissance wrote:Make it a large hp boost? +25% hp
Or cheaper/faster

I was thinking 15%
User avatar
New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 9314
Joined: Apr 26, 2015
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

Hazza54321 wrote:Can we make genitours a dragoon combat rather than range, same rangem as a skirm and more range than gurhas, strelets and mace is just ridiculous

Personally I would just remove 2 range and line-of-sight. I don't think changing the card is necessary; it's just too strong.
User avatar
No Flag Jaeger
Jaeger
Posts: 4492
Joined: Feb 28, 2015

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by Jaeger »

zoom wrote:I don't know of a single good player who thinks Cassadors are better than Skirmishers, and Longbowmen – while ranged infantry – are not a skirmisher unit. They certainly should be a little better than they are.

Also, I'm confident Genitours will not give 6 range for long. I was only discussing Cassadors...


Why does everyone bash on cassadors? They win vs skirms in a ranged battle and I'm pretty sure they have more attack/cost as well which would make them better counters too
last time i cryed was because i stood on Lego
Palestine Mimsy for President
Jaeger
Posts: 3680
Joined: Feb 21, 2015

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by Mimsy for President »

ovi12 wrote:
zoom wrote:I don't know of a single good player who thinks Cassadors are better than Skirmishers, and Longbowmen – while ranged infantry – are not a skirmisher unit. They certainly should be a little better than they are.

Also, I'm confident Genitours will not give 6 range for long. I was only discussing Cassadors...


Why does everyone bash on cassadors? They win vs skirms in a ranged battle and I'm pretty sure they have more attack/cost as well which would make them better counters too

They are terrible, no way they win vs skirms.
User avatar
United States of America noissance
Jaeger
Donator 01
Posts: 2031
Joined: Mar 28, 2015
ESO: noissance
Location: United States

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by noissance »

Hazza54321 wrote:
noissance wrote:Make it a large hp boost? +25% hp
Or cheaper/faster

I was thinking 15%

I think making it like thoroughbreds is better. 2 type:
1. Cost +10%, train time -10% speed +10%
2. Cost 15% cheaper, train faster
Error 404: Signature not found
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Mimsy for President wrote:
ovi12 wrote:
zoom wrote:I don't know of a single good player who thinks Cassadors are better than Skirmishers, and Longbowmen – while ranged infantry – are not a skirmisher unit. They certainly should be a little better than they are.

Also, I'm confident Genitours will not give 6 range for long. I was only discussing Cassadors...


Why does everyone bash on cassadors? They win vs skirms in a ranged battle and I'm pretty sure they have more attack/cost as well which would make them better counters too

They are terrible, no way they win vs skirms.

And even if they do, they have 50% range resist which means 0hp, try to caca vs cuirs xD.
User avatar
New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 9314
Joined: Apr 26, 2015
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

– Organ Gun limber (combat) mode speed increased from 1.6 to 2.4. Train-points decreased from 45 to 40.
– "2 Organ Guns" home-city shipment changed to 1 Li'l Bombard; name and description updated accordingly. OR Heavy Cannon/Great Bombard/Culverin+Mortar/Culverin+organ+petard/3Organs(200c cost)/2Organs+buff

As you can tell I'm undecided of what to make of the 2 Organ Guns shipment...
User avatar
No Flag thebritish
Jaeger
Posts: 3787
Joined: Jul 18, 2015

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by thebritish »

Why should ports get lil bombard shipment with a unit which costs 1200 gold and is available in industrial.
You shouldnt buff every weak aspect of the civs, or if you really want to, buff brits too.
Ports with only one card make their jinetes as strong as a brit player with 3 cards for cav (this isnt fair at all).
Also, cassadors are already too good.
Lets compare veteran lbow and veteran cassador:

-Cassadoers have 50% RR with 105 HP which means they have 157 HP in skirm battles.
*Longbowmans have 121 HP with 30% RR which means they have 157 HP in skirm battles.
-Cassadoes have 17 attack with 2x multiplier vs heavy infantry which means they have 34 attack.
*Longbowmans have 20 attack with 1.25x multiplier which means they have 25 attack vs heavy infantry.

Now please tell me if there isnt any big difference between 25 attack and 34 attack..
krichk wrote: For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge thebritish
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

thebritish wrote:Why should ports get lil bombard shipment with a unit which costs 1200 gold and is available in industrial.
You shouldnt buff every weak aspect of the civs, or if you really want to, buff brits too.
Ports with only one card make their jinetes as strong as a brit player with 3 cards for cav (this isnt fair at all).
Also, cassadors are already too good.
Lets compare veteran lbow and veteran cassador:

-Cassadoers have 50% RR with 105 HP which means they have 157 HP in skirm battles.
*Longbowmans have 121 HP with 30% RR which means they have 157 HP in skirm battles.
-Cassadoes have 17 attack with 2x multiplier vs heavy infantry which means they have 34 attack.
*Longbowmans have 20 attack with 1.25x multiplier which means they have 25 attack vs heavy infantry.

Now please tell me if there isnt any big difference between 25 attack and 34 attack..

Lb shoot 1.5 times faster so it is 37.5 and lb are cheaper.
User avatar
Serbia Atomiswave
Lancer
Posts: 794
Joined: Dec 27, 2015

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by Atomiswave »

zoom wrote:– Organ Gun limber (combat) mode speed increased from 1.6 to 2.4. Train-points decreased from 45 to 40.
– "2 Organ Guns" home-city shipment changed to 1 Li'l Bombard; name and description updated accordingly. OR Heavy Cannon/Great Bombard/Culverin+Mortar/Culverin+organ+petard/3Organs(200c cost)/2Organs+buff

As you can tell I'm undecided of what to make of the 2 Organ Gun shipment...


Organ guns are relatively fine, ports have much bigger problem. They need some card rotation, because they get almost all military upgrade cards in industrial which is pretty late. You rotated silk road with Ottomans which is good idea, so i think it shouldn't be too much to move at least one port cass/musk dam/hp card to fortress. Ports desperately need buff for ranged inf till industrial.
User avatar
New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 9314
Joined: Apr 26, 2015
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

I'd move both the individual gunpowder-infantry improvement cards to the Fortress Age (one possibly to Colonial) and keep the combat one in Industrial. I wouldn't call it a much bigger problem by any means though. I was simply interested in discussing what to do with the 2 Organ Guns shipment, because it's harder to figure out. I also thought I'd give my suggestion for tweaking the unit, making it a little better and more unique.
User avatar
New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 9314
Joined: Apr 26, 2015
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

thebritish wrote:Why should ports get lil bombard shipment with a unit which costs 1200 gold and is available in industrial.
You shouldnt buff every weak aspect of the civs, or if you really want to, buff brits too.
Ports with only one card make their jinetes as strong as a brit player with 3 cards for cav (this isnt fair at all).
Also, cassadors are already too good.
Lets compare veteran lbow and veteran cassador:

-Cassadoers have 50% RR with 105 HP which means they have 157 HP in skirm battles.
*Longbowmans have 121 HP with 30% RR which means they have 157 HP in skirm battles.
-Cassadoes have 17 attack with 2x multiplier vs heavy infantry which means they have 34 attack.
*Longbowmans have 20 attack with 1.25x multiplier which means they have 25 attack vs heavy infantry.

Now please tell me if there isnt any big difference between 25 attack and 34 attack..

Because 2 Organ Guns is a weak shipment, Portuguese might need some help early Fortress Age, L'il Bombards are shit and not worth 1200c, and I like the concept in terms of design. Did you happen to miss all my alternative suggestions, by the way?

Finally, your stats as well as your math on Longbowmen are completely off.

Longbowmen have 95hp
Veteran Longbowmen have 114hp (~162.86RgdHP)

Even if we suppose (veteran I presume; you fail to note this) Longbowmen have 121hp they would have ~172.86RgdHP so frankly, I have no idea where you get your numbers or how you do the math. On top of that you also don't take into account that Longbowmen fire twice as fast, nor that they sometimes miss, nor their range, nor the speed of Cassadors.

I can at least give you this: Cassadors are a much better (ranged) heavy-infantry counter than Longbowmen.

2/10 Garjas – Garja Shrugged
User avatar
Serbia Atomiswave
Lancer
Posts: 794
Joined: Dec 27, 2015

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by Atomiswave »

zoom wrote:I'd move both the individual gunpowder-infantry improvement cards to the Fortress Age (one possibly to Colonial) and keep the combat one in Industrial. I wouldn't call it a much bigger problem by any means though. I was simply interested in discussing what to do with the 2 Organ Guns shipment, because it's harder to figure out. I also thought I'd give my suggestion for tweaking the unit, making it a little better and more unique.


I am glad you are considering rotation of ranged inf improvement cards. That way you don't have to mess with cass stats, because imp cards will be available sooner. If you buff cass stats + card rotation it will be too much.

As for organs, I agree they are weak shipment. Simply increasing their number to 3 will be too much i guess?
User avatar
New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 9314
Joined: Apr 26, 2015
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

Atomiswave wrote:
zoom wrote:I'd move both the individual gunpowder-infantry improvement cards to the Fortress Age (one possibly to Colonial) and keep the combat one in Industrial. I wouldn't call it a much bigger problem by any means though. I was simply interested in discussing what to do with the 2 Organ Guns shipment, because it's harder to figure out. I also thought I'd give my suggestion for tweaking the unit, making it a little better and more unique.


I am glad you are considering rotation of ranged inf improvement cards. That way you don't have to mess with cass stats, because improvement cards will be available sooner. If you buff cass stats + card rotation it will be too much.

As for organs, I agree they are weak shipment. Simply increasing their number to 3 will be too much i guess?

Well, I personally think it would be good. It would make the Colonial and Fortress Ages a little more viable without radically changing the design of the civilization (to turtle and reach late-game), which would likely help balance as well. That doesn't mean the rest of the team likes the idea by any means. All I'm doing here is providing suggestions for various potential issues.
Germany lordraphael
Pro Player
EWTNWC LAN SilverAdvanced Division WinnerDonator 01
Posts: 2549
Joined: Jun 28, 2015

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by lordraphael »

Marco1698 wrote:Ports doesn't need any other improvements, because it wasn't supposed to be top civ. Casadores are cheap unit, why would you buff them? Ports has got also cheap artillery and the best dragoons. Ports is ok now

this is just the wrong approach no civ is meant to be the " top civ " ideally all civs are equal in terms of strength. So your argument is comepletly irrelevant in fact its not even an argument because you had the presumption that the developers decided which civ should be good or bad , that is not right tho
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
User avatar
Serbia Atomiswave
Lancer
Posts: 794
Joined: Dec 27, 2015

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by Atomiswave »

zoom wrote:
Atomiswave wrote:
zoom wrote:I'd move both the individual gunpowder-infantry improvement cards to the Fortress Age (one possibly to Colonial) and keep the combat one in Industrial. I wouldn't call it a much bigger problem by any means though. I was simply interested in discussing what to do with the 2 Organ Guns shipment, because it's harder to figure out. I also thought I'd give my suggestion for tweaking the unit, making it a little better and more unique.


I am glad you are considering rotation of ranged inf improvement cards. That way you don't have to mess with cass stats, because improvement cards will be available sooner. If you buff cass stats + card rotation it will be too much.

As for organs, I agree they are weak shipment. Simply increasing their number to 3 will be too much i guess?

Well, I personally think it would be good. It would make the Colonial and Fortress Ages a little more viable without radically changing the design of the civilization, which would likely help balance as well. That doesn't mean the rest of the team likes the idea by any means. All I'm doing here is providing suggestions for various potential issues.


Organs are not so weak if you take arty hp card which is certainly an option, but getting hp card for two organs especially if you don't plan to build more arty is dead card. On the other hand, for three, that could even be considered. It's indeed hard to make decision what to do with organs, but something has to be done in order to make them viable.
User avatar
Serbia Atomiswave
Lancer
Posts: 794
Joined: Dec 27, 2015

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by Atomiswave »

lordraphael wrote:
Marco1698 wrote:Ports doesn't need any other improvements, because it wasn't supposed to be top civ. Casadores are cheap unit, why would you buff them? Ports has got also cheap artillery and the best dragoons. Ports is ok now

this is just the wrong approach no civ is meant to be the " top civ " ideally all civs are equal in terms of strength. So your argument is comepletly irrelevant in fact its not even an argument because you had the presumption that the developers decided which civ should be good or bad , that is not right tho


It's good that you recognize the need for Ports to survive till industrial age. Really, they don't have much going for them before industrial. Maybe devs really wanted for them to be late game civ, but for competitive play that's just not viable.
Palestine Mimsy for President
Jaeger
Posts: 3680
Joined: Feb 21, 2015

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by Mimsy for President »

Nerf genitour and goons for all civs. Buff cassadoritos.
User avatar
Serbia Atomiswave
Lancer
Posts: 794
Joined: Dec 27, 2015

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by Atomiswave »

Mimsy for President wrote:Nerf genitour and goons for all civs. Buff cassadoritos.


Every AOE III community constantly rants about genitour, like it's biggest problem in game. It will probably be nerfed, but alone fact that you get it in industrial is nerf by itself, especially in 1v1 matches. Don't forget that primary task for esoc patch is to balance 1v1 matches.
User avatar
No Flag thebritish
Jaeger
Posts: 3787
Joined: Jul 18, 2015

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by thebritish »

Ports are meant to be late game civ.
They are not meant to be viable in all ages, and if you give them access to viability to all ages they will become japan+china+german in one civ (japan colonial play, german fortress play and china industrial play-beat that if you can).
Than even captains if played correctly will be able to beat colonels with ports
krichk wrote: For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge thebritish
Palestine Mimsy for President
Jaeger
Posts: 3680
Joined: Feb 21, 2015

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by Mimsy for President »

Atomiswave wrote:
Mimsy for President wrote:Nerf genitour and goons for all civs. Buff cassadoritos.


Every AOE III community constantly rants about genitour, like it's biggest problem in game. It will probably be nerfed, but alone fact that you get it in industrial is nerf by itself, especially if we are talking about 1v1 matches. Don't forget that primary task for esoc patch is to balance 1v1 matches.

if we nerf genitour, we don't have to buff the other civs.
User avatar
New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 9314
Joined: Apr 26, 2015
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

thebritish wrote:Ports are meant to be late game civ.
They are not meant to be viable in all ages, and if you give them access to viability to all ages they will become japan+china+german in one civ (japan colonial play, german fortress play and china industrial play-beat that if you can).
Than even captains if played correctly will be able to beat colonels with ports

I agree, but it would be fun for gameplay reasons if they were more viable (without being competitively viable) outside of the Industrial Turtle builds.
User avatar
No Flag thebritish
Jaeger
Posts: 3787
Joined: Jul 18, 2015

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by thebritish »

Instead of the genitour to give +6 range and +6 LOS, make it to give +4 range and +4LOS
or maybe
+2 range +2 attack +4 LOS, so on this way they will have 16 range goons (still better than 14 range), and they will have +2 more attack 2x3=6 more attack vs cav
krichk wrote: For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge thebritish
User avatar
Serbia Atomiswave
Lancer
Posts: 794
Joined: Dec 27, 2015

Re: Portuguese Discussion Thread

Post by Atomiswave »

thebritish wrote:Ports are meant to be late game civ.
They are not meant to be viable in all ages, and if you give them access to viability to all ages they will become japan+china+german in one civ (japan colonial play, german fortress play and china industrial play-beat that if you can).
Than even captains if played correctly will be able to beat colonels with ports


I don't propose any radical changes that will ruin Ports uniqueness, nor i said that they need to be viable in all ages. I just pointed out that they somehow need to survive till industrial. Only way to do that is to make them LITTLE more viable in colonial or fortress.

Don't forget that Ports don't have vill cards(partly buffed by price reduction). They have almost all military imp cards in industrial age which is pretty late for most matches. Have weak fortress artillery shipment and to top it, they don't have access to falcs. Those are big drawbacks which can't be compensated with free age tc, good goons and good water.

Anyway, here are my two cents for Ports.

First and foremost, vill price reduction is great start, two thumbs up for ep team for that! At least Ports can now boom faster.

Second, organ gun should be buffed somehow. Preferably speed increasement.

Third, by moving one inf imp card from industrial to fortress Ports will be little more viable before industrial, and civ identity won't be compromised. Genitours and two inf imp cards still remain in industrial which is in accordinance to their late civ theme.

Fourth and last, genitours should be nerfed.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV