Ottomans Discussion Thread

[pecelot]

4mams card too ? Huge nerf for their ff whitch was OP though

You still have 4 mames on top of idk 20 abus and 2 falcs. Sure, 1 mame less makes the shipment less OP, but it's still really good.

[momuuu]

I mean, -1 mam is possibly comparably large of a nerf as the abus nerf is.

[gibson]

I mean, -1 mam is possibly comparably large of a nerf as the abus nerf is.

honestly I think it's bigger Tbh.... Ofc it depends on the specific game but I think 1 mam is bigger cause the abus nerf forces a hit and run style of play the makes the Nerf irrelevant

[momuuu]

I mean, -1 mam is possibly comparably large of a nerf as the abus nerf is.

honestly I think it's bigger Tbh.... Ofc it depends on the specific game but I think 1 mam is bigger cause the abus nerf forces a hit and run style of play the makes the Nerf irrelevant

Well, the abus nerf sure is a pretty big nerf, but you can hit and run a little bit yes. The mam nerf is possibly bigger, really hard to judge and also depends on the mu. But from 5 -> 4 mams is really huge for a strat that relies on having mams alive. Once the mams die the otto FF is kinda done for; When the mams are gone there isn't really a unit good enough anymore to make up for the shitty eco otto has, unless you won the fight extremely hard regardless of losing mams. So yeah, in that case 20% less mams is insanely big for the otto FF.

[KINGofOsmane]

I mean, -1 mam is possibly comparably large of a nerf as the abus nerf is.

honestly I think it's bigger Tbh.... Ofc it depends on the specific game but I think 1 mam is bigger cause the abus nerf forces a hit and run style of play the makes the Nerf irrelevant

Well, the abus nerf sure is a pretty big nerf, but you can hit and run a little bit yes. The mam nerf is possibly bigger, really hard to judge and also depends on the mu. But from 5 -> 4 mams is really huge for a strat that relies on having mams alive. Once the mams die the otto FF is kinda done for; When the mams are gone there isn't really a unit good enough anymore to make up for the shitty eco otto has, unless you won the fight extremely hard regardless of losing mams. So yeah, in that case 20% less mams is insanely big for the otto FF.

tbh the 4 mams nerf was needed coz otto ff was just too easy and too good.
about the abus nerf i mean they still do good in some situations but vs other range inf they arent that good anymore, might need to buff them a little bit.

[momuuu]

Yeah Im not at all saying it was unjustified or sth.

Maybe the abus nerf was a bit much because the maps themselves nerfed jan abus.

[pecelot]

You still have to deal with 4 full HP mamelukes, about 20 jans and 2 falcs. Don't forget that main counter to such a composition — dragoon-type units — has been nerfed, too.

[deuxballesman]

Now yes but in the first EP interation you had -12hp vet jans, worst abus (but they were hardly used in a ff anyway) and one mam (so about 2000 ranged hp) less with untouched goons at the time

[_H2O]

The purpose of the Jan hp nerf was to help weaker players by making the tc cleanly kill Jans. also to increase the punishment an Otto player takes from getting poked. Would be nice to get it back with an attack boost to compensate a bit.

[deleted_user0]

meh more attack less hp just makes them more like sepoy or ashi/musk

also their job in the jan abus combo is to tank, not really to deal dmg.

[Darwin_]

I think that the RoF nerf for abus is going at the right point, but was the wrong solution to the problem. I would have much rather liked to have seen their ranged attack nerfed to 28-32 and their multiplier vs. Hi increased to 1.75 or 2.00, and thier negative multipliers vs. artillery and villagers removed.

Also, I have been having an idea for silk road. I think that it would be cool to merge the Silk Road card with ATP. Maybe just increasing res income by 20% (instead of 25) and reduce TP cost by 30%, with maybe the ranged attack or HP increase also. Would be a cool way to make silk road a little more useful, beyond the previous buff.

[_venox_]

Why would you want to remove their negative multipliers against artillery and villagers? Abus one-shotting falconets will become more of a problem. Silk road already is really useful where it is now. I don't think creating new cards is going to be anywhere in the top 10 priority list for the EP-team.

[pecelot]

Venox always on point!

[Darwin_]

Why would you want to remove their negative multipliers against artillery and villagers? Abus one-shotting falconets will become more of a problem. Silk road already is really useful where it is now. I don't think creating new cards is going to be anywhere in the top 10 priority list for the EP-team.

Abus with 30 atk no negative multiplier vs. cannon same as 40 atk abus with negative multiplier.

[_H2O]

What if ottoman Vils cost zero but had to be queued and cost population space.

[gibson]

What of we just deleted the civ because it's "unique" design just makes it inbalancable in most situations.

[britishmusketeer]

What if ottoman Vils cost zero but had to be queued and cost population space.

Would be a great change imo

[Rikikipu]

Otto are fine on EP, no need to be changed at all

[Darwin_]

What of we just deleted the civ because it's "unique" design just makes it inbalancable in most situations.

Than we would have to get rid of sioux, china, iro, possibly japan, and maybe germany. Great idea, though!

[gibson]

Otto are fine on EP, no need to be changed at all

Well they're unplayable in a serious team game and incredibly map dependent on 1v1. In some maps they're complete shit and in others they're very good

[gibson]

What of we just deleted the civ because it's "unique" design just makes it inbalancable in most situations.

Than we would have to get rid of sioux, china, iro, possibly japan, and maybe germany. Great idea, though!

Um which of those civs suffer from having a completely shitty eco while having overwhelmingly strong units? Soiux maybe, but Sioux can actually be fixed without destroying the civs uniqueness while otto can't.

[pecelot]

Otto are fine on EP, no need to be changed at all

Well they're unplayable in a serious team game and incredibly map dependent on 1v1. In some maps they're complete shit and in others they're very good

aren't all these FF-orientated civs TP-dependant?

[gibson]

Otto are fine on EP, no need to be changed at all

Well they're unplayable in a serious team game and incredibly map dependent on 1v1. In some maps they're complete shit and in others they're very good

aren't all these FF-orientated civs TP-dependant?

Not to the extent that they lose basically every single mu if there's no tp......

[Darwin_]

Otto are fine on EP, no need to be changed at all

Well they're unplayable in a serious team game and incredibly map dependent on 1v1. In some maps they're complete shit and in others they're very good

How are they unplayable in team? They are one of my main civs in team on the EP. Their jans are just so good and so upgrade able, and they can get to fortress in well under 6:00. They are a very serious threat IMO. The Abus nerf is also almost mute in team, because most likely, you will only be directing one unit, so microing them is way easier. Your point about map dependency is very true, but in a tournament setting or when their is no randomness to the map selection Otto can be played quite well, and I think that they are solidly mid-tier. They have very good ATP and stagecoach options, both for colonial and fortress, and have a decent composition throughout, though they still struggle against large amounts of cav, and straight up loose to civs like Germany due to compositionial disadvantage. I do think that they should be ironed out a little bit more by the team and squared away. I still maintain that a abus change would be nice that doesnt touch the RoF, and a general buff to cav archers would be a nice help to otto and russia.

[gibson]

Otto are fine on EP, no need to be changed at all

Well they're unplayable in a serious team game and incredibly map dependent on 1v1. In some maps they're complete shit and in others they're very good

How are they unplayable in team? They are one of my main civs in team on the EP. Their jans are just so good and so upgrade able, and they can get to fortress in well under 6:00. They are a very serious threat IMO. The Abus nerf is also almost mute in team, because most likely, you will only be directing one unit, so microing them is way easier. Your point about map dependency is very true, but in a tournament setting or when their is no randomness to the map selection Otto can be played quite well, and I think that they are solidly mid-tier. They have very good ATP and stagecoach options, both for colonial and fortress, and have a decent composition throughout, though they still struggle against large amounts of cav, and straight up loose to civs like Germany due to compositionial disadvantage. I do think that they should be ironed out a little bit more by the team and squared away. I still maintain that a abus change would be nice that doesnt touch the RoF, and a general buff to cav archers would be a nice help to otto and russia.

They suck in team......if you have otto on you're team you have to rush every game since ottos eco can't keep up. You just get to the 10 minute mark and realize every other player has twice your eco and resign.