Indians Discussion Thread

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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by forgrin »

_RDX_ wrote:
lemmings121 wrote:
_RDX_ wrote:Does anybody have some good India vs Japan MU recs?


You should rush the fuck out of japan, unless you are h20, then you can contain and boom.

The India vs Japan MU seems to me like a unpredictable match. I rushed so hard and still japan booms. As sieging shrines with sepoys and gurks gives him some time to boom and a smooth attempt to FF, I directly get to his base, and start killing his rax, TC etc., I win 40% of matches against japan just like this. 60% of matches are becoming so hard for me to just rush against players who are well defensive. Even some times i tried 10/10, karni boom lol. Japan can't be just easily outboomed. The situation is like if i keep destroying his shrines, I'll let him do FF or if i siege his base and try killing villies, he just booms on with his shrines and defends with some minutemen etc., That's the reason i asked for some recs on this.

I can have a look through my recs folder and see if I have any examples of the Garja rush build.
Edit: nvm I don't have anything
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by _RDX_ »

Lol
oranges.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by greatscythe11 »

_RDX_ wrote:
lemmings121 wrote:
_RDX_ wrote:Does anybody have some good India vs Japan MU recs?


You should rush the fuck out of japan, unless you are h20, then you can contain and boom.

The India vs Japan MU seems to me like a unpredictable match. I rushed so hard and still japan booms. As sieging shrines with sepoys and gurks gives him some time to boom and a smooth attempt to FF, I directly get to his base, and start killing his rax, TC etc., I win 40% of matches against japan just like this. 60% of matches are becoming so hard for me to just rush against players who are well defensive. Even some times i tried 10/10, karni boom lol. Japan can't be just easily outboomed. The situation is like if i keep destroying his shrines, I'll let him do FF or if i siege his base and try killing villies, he just booms on with his shrines and defends with some minutemen etc., That's the reason i asked for some recs on this.


Well, first of all, namaste from a fellow Indian.Although I only play Germany, my feeling is that for containment and boom option u need to hit their shrines by about 6:00 min.U need to have a decent protection for the sieging force against Ashi, Yumi , besteiro and Nagi. French grenadiers can be an option(about 240 siege plus decent against yumi).Then use the xp you've gathered from sieging(you can consider it as a TP- 50 xp from each shrine) to send eco cards like foreign logging, 600 w, 700 c for age up etc.The main point is, try to siege his shrines but set a limit to the sieging force.Also, you should first siege shrines near your base for your hunts and then high number of shrines placed together.He has 2 options-a) To protect his shrines by making Ashi, Yumi etc.If he makes too big of an army he will be slow to age3. Then you'll have better units like urumi, mahout, disciplined sepoy, gurkha etc. vs his age 2 army. b)He decides not to protect his shrines in which case he will lose eco and his age 3 mass will be small. To do a fortress age timing vs Japan there are two obstacles-a)High range damage infantry like yumi mass behind the wall.For that, Mahout and urumi can absorb ranged damage well.Against thick infantry formation urumi should do well.b)Very tightly packed structure in their base with walls.Siege elephant if protected can take down structures from a distance to clear the path to the cherry orchards(main food source for Japan) for mahout and urumi. You can keep the grenadiers on the rebuilt shrines.That's just a concept I have.You need to figure out the actual BO through trial and error.All the best bro.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by WickedCossack »

_RDX_ wrote:Does anybody have some good India vs Japan MU recs?


Don't have recs but I did play this MU vs hazza (using bobabu) in the last tourny so there's a VOD. Zutas got the UI on so you can see the vil distribution and most of the techs. https://youtu.be/4ba2O4SIJfk?t=25m21s

Nothing revolutionary but just a very solid build that will work in most situations against Japan.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

WickedCossack wrote:
_RDX_ wrote:Does anybody have some good India vs Japan MU recs?


Don't have recs but I did play this MU vs hazza (using bobabu) in the last tourny so there's a VOD. Zutas got the UI on so you can see the vil distribution and most of the techs. https://youtu.be/4ba2O4SIJfk?t=25m21s

Nothing revolutionary but just a very solid build that will work in most situations against Japan.

lol thats a terrible game
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by gibson »

kami on that map lol
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by WickedCossack »

Hazza54321 wrote:
WickedCossack wrote:
_RDX_ wrote:Does anybody have some good India vs Japan MU recs?


Don't have recs but I did play this MU vs hazza (using bobabu) in the last tourny so there's a VOD. Zutas got the UI on so you can see the vil distribution and most of the techs. https://youtu.be/4ba2O4SIJfk?t=25m21s

Nothing revolutionary but just a very solid build that will work in most situations against Japan.

lol thats a terrible game


Haha. Still though its a build id do even if you didnt fook up the defense so just for the purposes of showing the build/concept the game is more than fine.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

for some reason i thought that map had more than 1 hunt so i wnet kami xD
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by _RDX_ »

greatscythe11 wrote:Well, first of all, namaste from a fellow Indian.Although I only play Germany, my feeling is that for containment and boom option u need to hit their shrines by about 6:00 min.U need to have a decent protection for the sieging force against Ashi, Yumi , besteiro and Nagi. French grenadiers can be an option(about 240 siege plus decent against yumi).Then use the xp you've gathered from sieging(you can consider it as a TP- 50 xp from each shrine) to send eco cards like foreign logging, 600 w, 700 c for age up etc.The main point is, try to siege his shrines but set a limit to the sieging force.Also, you should first siege shrines near your base for your hunts and then high number of shrines placed together.He has 2 options-a) To protect his shrines by making Ashi, Yumi etc.If he makes too big of an army he will be slow to age3. Then you'll have better units like urumi, mahout, disciplined sepoy, gurkha etc. vs his age 2 army. b)He decides not to protect his shrines in which case he will lose eco and his age 3 mass will be small. To do a fortress age timing vs Japan there are two obstacles-a)High range damage infantry like yumi mass behind the wall.For that, Mahout and urumi can absorb ranged damage well.Against thick infantry formation urumi should do well.b)Very tightly packed structure in their base with walls.Siege elephant if protected can take down structures from a distance to clear the path to the cherry orchards(main food source for Japan) for mahout and urumi. You can keep the grenadiers on the rebuilt shrines.That's just a concept I have.You need to figure out the actual BO through trial and error.All the best bro.

There is a lot of things op in what you said. So taking french consulate first instead of otto against japan is good, it gives those grenadiers, also it decreases the time to achieve age 3 as it gives the 5% enhancement to the eco. Thanks! I will try what you said and hope it works. And India doesn't get 700 c (they get only 600 c in age 2)
oranges.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by forgrin »

I haven't tried the cons gren strat myself, but I feel if Japan decides to push you then 3 Otto Huss would be vastly superior in a fight vs the grens, plus without sending GFA the crates don't match 4 Otto vills. 5% eco bonus is negligible at that point in the game and will not make a difference in aging up faster. There is probably a way to make grens work if you know they're going yumi+wall (so you can't rush effectively), but otherwise you're risking more than you gain vs just going Otto cons.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by Asateo »

How about reducing the price of the Flail Elephant cards?

I was looking for a solution to fast siege shrines vs Japans and thought about the Flail Elephant card. Then I found out why I never used it (300 food for 2 Elephants?)
Flail Elephant = 125 f 125 g
Sepoy = 90f 30c

Age II Card for Sepoy = 5 = 450f 150c = 517VS+250VS = 767VS
Age II Card for Flail Elephant = 2 = 250f 250 g = 297VS+ 416 VS = 713 VS
300f for the II Elephants = 357 VS
713-357=356 VS is the end worth of the card.

That's rediculously low if you compare it with siege cards from other civs at age II.
8 pikes for dutch and spanish = 380f VS + 533 g VS = 913VS worth (256 total siege 960 total HP)
7 pikes for china 840 w VS (240 total siege 735 total HP)

2 Flail Elephants = (160total siege 650 total HP)
As you can see you could even add a 3th elephant and the card would be equally strong as the 8pikes card (and pikes you can still use for something else besides sieging, Flails not)

It seems to me that a 2 flail elephant card at age II is completely viable without a food cost. Age 3 and 4 cards have already there food cost put to 0, why not the age II card?
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

In age 2 it is a team shipment. Also they still have 50% rr which is grenadier-level. Pretty strong if you are in team (And imo viable if not - Evilcheadar has developed quite a strong rush)
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by Asateo »

you're right, didn't notice the team :|

You don't have the BO for that rush? I don't see it on the strategy wall.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

Unfortunately it is a strongly kept secret. Although I hear it's just a sepoy 9/10 rush with elifentsh.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by tedere12 »

I improved the flail rush build from cheadar/noissance, you can see the build order somewhere here https://www.twitch.tv/insightstudios I did it once in a streamed match. It is OP
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

just a quick note that can be checked but if im not mistaken then there is another factor to take to consider with the flail elephant. Most units have a slower ROF for siege but a siege ele does it as melee damage at 1.5 per sec. so its damage is hidden. Its a funky unit that really needs some more versatility if you ask me but nice that they do have it.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by rsy »

tedere12 wrote:I improved the flail rush build from cheadar/noissance, you can see the build order somewhere here https://www.twitch.tv/insightstudios I did it once in a streamed match. It is OP

I don't see one..is it where u send 600c first and then some units?
That's what I did either way in our india china game
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by tedere12 »

rsy wrote:
tedere12 wrote:I improved the flail rush build from cheadar/noissance, you can see the build order somewhere here https://www.twitch.tv/insightstudios I did it once in a streamed match. It is OP

I don't see one..is it where u send 600c first and then some units?
That's what I did either way in our india china game

no, I age with 10/10 tov and send 5 sepoy first and I push with 3 eli + 10 sepoy, intervention raises siege a lot so they take down fb
ofc I have to pay credit to the guy that did the build first, his build is better but mine works too, imo easier to execute.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by tedere12 »

and at that game we played it was 5 am for me and I had a couple drinks, I played really bad :P
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by fei123456 »

why? you just go consulate rush, 300e-5sepoy, but ally with french and buy grenades. much better than flail elephant.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by tedere12 »

fei123456 wrote:why? you just go consulate rush, 300e-5sepoy, but ally with french and buy grenades. much better than flail elephant.

the flail rush comes sooner, also its much more fun
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by fei123456 »

grenades are fun too, BOOM!
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by Asateo »

I tried flail rush a couple of times. Fb, you might destroy, but the actual base usually doens't work for me. And if the other guy has no fb, you have a problem. :)
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by deleted_user »

I think india is fine right now, the only problem is their rush doesn't work at all since the maps are balanced ( expect some of them )
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by lemmings121 »

ok, gimme 181hp sepoys and we dont talk more about this civ.
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