Indians Discussion Thread

[deleted_user]

Damn, well said sirmusket

[Darwin_]

In all seriousness, I wonder what india would be like with a fixed 400w 100f crate start

[momuuu]

Reducing age up time for things that arent agra fort was a cool suggestion a few pages back.

[Darwin_]

Yeah I think on FP 1.2 all non-agra wonders built 10 seconds faster or so. IMO, I would just make all their wonders build faster cause a 10 second faster 10/10 agra would be nulled by the time spent waiting to actually have a shipment. I honestly have no idea which one would be better: faster wonders or fixed 400w start.

But, we also have to remember that India is very good in team, and also that India has shitty age 2 hand cav, but really good ranged cav. I think we need to buff sowar HP a fair bit and reduce camel attack, which would be a useful buff for 1v1 and also an appropriate nerf to zambs for team. Maybe also give Guhka 19 range in colonial and 20 in fortress, instead of 18 and 19.

Honestly though, I really do agree with the sentiment that India is not inherently weak in the current patch, and that all we need to do is figure out a different way to play India. We have seen some weird builds coming out of India that are pretty decent, like Jerom's stagecoach, Garja's Karni build, H2O's elifent-semi, and even (if I do say so myself) my Tower of victory build. But I dont know. I would like to see India balanced in some way, just because they are lacking some things in 1v1 that cant really be fixed by builds (like shitty hand cav/no good counters to artillery), while having some extremely abusable things in team (zambs, 10/10 agra, late-game elifents)

[momuuu]

Fixed start is an ugly fix anyways so..

[gibson]

Fixed crate starts would be great if you're looking at it purely from a balance standpoint

[momuuu]

If you apply it to all civs it is, but if you just do it for india its a little bit :(

It could probably fix civs like france, germany, iro, china and india rather elegantly though.

[forgrin]

If you apply it to all civs it is, but if you just do it for india its a little bit :(

It could probably fix civs like france, germany, iro, china and india rather elegantly though.

China already has fixed start, it's arguably what makes them actually playable (could you imagine starting with coin?).

For civs that can start market, variable starts are fine. For all other civs it's just a straight up RNG nerf or buff at the beginning of each game. Giving these civs isn't an "ugly fix" as you say, it's fixing an ugly oversight from the game devs.

[Atomiswave]

In all seriousness, I wonder what india would be like with a fixed 400w 100f crate start

I would also like to see China with fixed 400w crate. Not losing vill seconds on wood gathering for second village maybe just what China needs in order seed up age ups.

[Darwin_]

Fixed crate start(s) would indeed be a really nice step towards balancing many civs. However, some might object to it from a game uniqueness standpoint. Maybe have 2 possible starts with given odds for each spawning, instead of 4+ starts that are totally random.

[Goodspeed]

I have no friends. You cant get 10k posts if you do. Besides I do not really care enough about india, they're loads of fun to play and have always felt pretty competitive to me. Interestingly enough I never really get the vibes that I lost because of civ when I play india.

An important point, it feels the same way to me. I always think "damn this civ is good but I'm not good enough to win with it."
India is a hard civ. That and the fact that people are only now exploring economic and semi-FF builds is the reason I prefer not to buff them right now.

[Diarouga]

I have no friends. You cant get 10k posts if you do. Besides I do not really care enough about india, they're loads of fun to play and have always felt pretty competitive to me. Interestingly enough I never really get the vibes that I lost because of civ when I play india.

An important point, it feels the same way to me. I always think "damn this civ is good but I'm not good enough to win with it."
India is a hard civ. That and the fact that people are only now exploring economic and semi-FF builds is the reason I prefer not to buff them right now.

Yeah, wait a bit.

[momuuu]

Fixed crate start(s) would indeed be a really nice step towards balancing many civs. However, some might object to it from a game uniqueness standpoint. Maybe have 2 possible starts with given odds for each spawning, instead of 4+ starts that are totally random.

However right now I think china just basically spawns with 100 resources less because they dont get the random extra crate you sometimes have.

[forgrin]

I have no friends. You cant get 10k posts if you do. Besides I do not really care enough about india, they're loads of fun to play and have always felt pretty competitive to me. Interestingly enough I never really get the vibes that I lost because of civ when I play india.

An important point, it feels the same way to me. I always think "damn this civ is good but I'm not good enough to win with it."
India is a hard civ. That and the fact that people are only now exploring economic and semi-FF builds is the reason I prefer not to buff them right now.

Obviously neither of you have played India vs RE France (or EP for that matter) semiFF that much :p

[Diarouga]

I have no friends. You cant get 10k posts if you do. Besides I do not really care enough about india, they're loads of fun to play and have always felt pretty competitive to me. Interestingly enough I never really get the vibes that I lost because of civ when I play india.

An important point, it feels the same way to me. I always think "damn this civ is good but I'm not good enough to win with it."
India is a hard civ. That and the fact that people are only now exploring economic and semi-FF builds is the reason I prefer not to buff them right now.

Obviously neither of you have played India vs RE France (or EP for that matter) semiFF that much :p

With eco builds it's playable.

[Darwin_]

Fixed crate start(s) would indeed be a really nice step towards balancing many civs. However, some might object to it from a game uniqueness standpoint. Maybe have 2 possible starts with given odds for each spawning, instead of 4+ starts that are totally random.

However right now I think china just basically spawns with 100 resources less because they dont get the random extra crate you sometimes have.

Ah... Do you want to give them a extra random crate or an extra fixed crate?

[Darwin_]

I have no friends. You cant get 10k posts if you do. Besides I do not really care enough about india, they're loads of fun to play and have always felt pretty competitive to me. Interestingly enough I never really get the vibes that I lost because of civ when I play india.

An important point, it feels the same way to me. I always think "damn this civ is good but I'm not good enough to win with it."
India is a hard civ. That and the fact that people are only now exploring economic and semi-FF builds is the reason I prefer not to buff them right now.

Obviously neither of you have played India vs RE France (or EP for that matter) semiFF that much :p

I think that's more a problem with France than with India. CDB RR essentially makes it impossible for India to rush them and be in the least bit effective, and also goons are very good on RE.

[momuuu]

I have no friends. You cant get 10k posts if you do. Besides I do not really care enough about india, they're loads of fun to play and have always felt pretty competitive to me. Interestingly enough I never really get the vibes that I lost because of civ when I play india.

An important point, it feels the same way to me. I always think "damn this civ is good but I'm not good enough to win with it."
India is a hard civ. That and the fact that people are only now exploring economic and semi-FF builds is the reason I prefer not to buff them right now.

Obviously neither of you have played India vs RE France (or EP for that matter) semiFF that much :p

I feel like I've played more high level india games than you've played aoe games lol. India is my 2nd civ anyways, I've played them quite a lot really and india vs RE france is just not that shitty if you know how to play it.

[gh0st]

I have no friends. You cant get 10k posts if you do. Besides I do not really care enough about india, they're loads of fun to play and have always felt pretty competitive to me. Interestingly enough I never really get the vibes that I lost because of civ when I play india.

An important point, it feels the same way to me. I always think "damn this civ is good but I'm not good enough to win with it."
India is a hard civ. That and the fact that people are only now exploring economic and semi-FF builds is the reason I prefer not to buff them right now.

Obviously neither of you have played India vs RE France (or EP for that matter) semiFF that much :p

You live in your own little world, don't you?

[forgrin]

FFS nobody can take a joke on these forums @jerom

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@gh0st

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[sirmusket]

FFS nobody can take a joke on these forums @jerom

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@gh0st

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Seriously, this forum is never gonna end, so please, clearly Forgrin is confident with his India, [spoiler=spoiler]when he not losing to me[/spoiler] to verse Jerom, so mirror it boyz, I'd be more than happy to cast it

[momuuu]

I dont want lag, could you maybe not cast it instead?

[Goodspeed]

Do you have to play a mirror? That wouldn't tell us anything about balance.
How about play the same MU twice and switch it around.

[momuuu]

It'd be irrelevant either way lol, not worth the time.

Ive been convinced the first thing Id test with india is non-agra wonders -10 seconds build time. Then Id test 700w 700g and then Id do the zamb thingy.

[sirmusket]

I dont want lag, could you maybe not cast it instead?

lol, If I'm at my other house my internet is completely fine, even forgrin knows that, im always full green wit him, you just trying to avoid the embarrassment on stream of getting whooped by the mighty forgrin