Indians Discussion Thread

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United States of America Darwin_
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by Darwin_ »

WickedCossack wrote:It's for sure 6 shots to take out a normal vil, I've used sepoy too often not to know that. I think its 12 for a cdb aswell. I don't know the other numbers but it's not 7 and 14.

I did the math but I mistakenly thought that villager base HP was 120, not 150. With their actual HP, it is 6 shots with no great coats, and 9 with it. That is still a very big difference to CDB's, considering that courers only cost 20 more food...
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by britishmusketeer »

Darwin_ wrote:I did the math but I mistakenly thought that villager base HP was 120, not 150. With their actual HP, it is 6 shots with no great coats, and 9 with it. That is still a very big difference to CDB's, considering that courers only cost 20 more food...

If india sepoy rushes french, the french player has to still be super careful since they will have 12 sepoy which one shots a cdb.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

forgrin wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:
Jerom wrote:I have no friends. You cant get 10k posts if you do. Besides I do not really care enough about india, they're loads of fun to play and have always felt pretty competitive to me. Interestingly enough I never really get the vibes that I lost because of civ when I play india.
An important point, it feels the same way to me. I always think "damn this civ is good but I'm not good enough to win with it."
India is a hard civ. That and the fact that people are only now exploring economic and semi-FF builds is the reason I prefer not to buff them right now.

Obviously neither of you have played India vs RE France (or EP for that matter) semiFF that much :p
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

britishmusketeer wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:I did the math but I mistakenly thought that villager base HP was 120, not 150. With their actual HP, it is 6 shots with no great coats, and 9 with it. That is still a very big difference to CDB's, considering that courers only cost 20 more food...

If india sepoy rushes french, the french player has to still be super careful since they will have 12 sepoy which one shots a cdb.
Would French ever be lacking Great Coat??
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by Darwin_ »

No, so 12 sepoy wouldnt actually 1 shot a cdb.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by britishmusketeer »

zoom wrote:
britishmusketeer wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:I did the math but I mistakenly thought that villager base HP was 120, not 150. With their actual HP, it is 6 shots with no great coats, and 9 with it. That is still a very big difference to CDB's, considering that courers only cost 20 more food...

If india sepoy rushes french, the french player has to still be super careful since they will have 12 sepoy which one shots a cdb.
Would French ever be lacking Great Coat??

Well if you force a great coat in transition that is a win in itself
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by pecelot »

You think so? Really? It's only like 75 food...
Darwin_ wrote:Minutemen, tc fire and your 16-20 cdbs can kill all 12 of their sepoys with good micro. Thats just crazy IMO compared to normal villagers.

sure, but later on there are just way more sepoys or redcoats, whereas you're left with like 10 musks/5 huss or 8 xbows
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by Darwin_ »

britishmusketeer wrote:
zoom wrote:
Show hidden quotes
Would French ever be lacking Great Coat??

Well if you force a great coat in transition that is a win in itself

Lol wut? Great coat is one of the best upgrades for france becuase it makes CDB's ridiculously strong.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

britishmusketeer wrote:
zoom wrote:
Show hidden quotes
Would French ever be lacking Great Coat??

Well if you force a great coat in transition that is a win in itself
Doesn't every good player always research the improvement while aging, in every game?

At least it used to be the case, I think.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

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Post by pecelot »

I, for one, usually research it when I recognise in the following minutes my vills can be in danger, for instance when I switch to further hunts or am under pressure in general.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

It's you I had in mind, actually.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by deleted_user0 »

Ye as fre you get great coats after your market ups in transition or after finishing first batch of units in colo, but thats when ppl most often forget to get it all
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by deleted_user »

This is something I could improve in my own game play. I research great coat in like 10% of my games but it makes no sense not to after 7 min or earlier. The improvement is so cheap and easily pays for itself if it saves even one villager.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by Darwin_ »

From all this fixed crate talking that was going on a few weeks ago, I think that a very useful and legitimate change would be to give India a fixed 400w 200f start, or a 300w 200f start if garunteed 10/10's are too strong. Maybe even a 200w 400f start could work as well. I also think giving them a 300w start with +1 starting villager could be an interesting fix as well. There has also been the proposition that wonder build time should be reduced by 10 seconds. I dont like that, due to how much age times can vary for india based on starts and treasures. It would be kinda weird: imagine 10/10ing at 3:40, while a slow age up on a coin start is still above 5:00. I think that reducing wonder time would be a fix to a symptom, but not the ailment.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by momuuu »

Tfw someone still doesnt get how crates work and thus suggests fixed crates.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by lemmings121 »

britishmusketeer wrote:
zoom wrote:
Show hidden quotes
Would French ever be lacking Great Coat??

Well if you force a great coat in transition that is a win in itself


Ah, I didnt quote that before because this game could have happened in our semis but...
You are insane. This "win" of forcing a upgrade for 100f (lol) will cost india one shipment + india has to delay market ups, while fre gets steel traps on age up +4cbd/700w first and hold easy. 12 sepoy wont kill a cdb in one shot, and fre will hardly ever lose a vill to this rush (india might still win latter, but doing any damage bigger then iddling vills for 10sec with the 12 sepoy is very hard)
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by lemmings121 »

Jerom wrote:Tfw someone still doesnt get how crates work and thus suggests fixed crates.


RE did in for china because it was too random.

why the fuck people lose their mind when we talk about doing the same for india? lol
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by momuuu »

Its so ugly for china too... Its necessary for china, not even in slightest does it change india as much so the most ugly change you can do should just be avoided.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by Darwin_ »

Jerom wrote:Tfw someone still doesnt get how crates work and thus suggests fixed crates.

What do you mean? I understand that the random crate is the same for both civs, but a coin crate makes a much bigger difference for India than for smth like fre.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by britishmusketeer »

lemmings121 wrote:
britishmusketeer wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Well if you force a great coat in transition that is a win in itself


Ah, I didnt quote that before because this game could have happened in our semis but...
You are insane. This "win" of forcing a upgrade for 100f (lol) will cost india one shipment + india has to delay market ups, while fre gets steel traps on age up +4cbd/700w first and hold easy. 12 sepoy wont kill a cdb in one shot, and fre will hardly ever lose a vill to this rush (india might still win latter, but doing any damage bigger then iddling vills for 10sec with the 12 sepoy is very hard)

Yea you are right. Even if it required 13 shots to one hit a cdb it would still be an essential upgrade. Not sure what i was thinking :p
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by deleted_user0 »

well the win of the sepoy push isnt forcing great coats, but forcing fre vils into tc early is much worse for fre than for other civs. for them to have 10 vils in tc is like having 12.5
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by forgrin »

umeu wrote:well the win of the sepoy push isnt forcing great coats, but forcing fre vils into tc early is much worse for fre than for other civs. for them to have 10 vils in tc is like having 12.5

Why would you put cdb in the TC when you can just 5 Huss + mm + cdb bs and beat sepoy rush ez.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by deleted_user0 »

well depends on what time the sepoy rush hits. a good sepoy rush should hit before you have cav out.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by pecelot »

Yeah lol, it's not that easy, especially now on EP...
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by momuuu »

Darwin_ wrote:
Jerom wrote:Tfw someone still doesnt get how crates work and thus suggests fixed crates.

What do you mean? I understand that the random crate is the same for both civs, but a coin crate makes a much bigger difference for India than for smth like fre.

You should have learned by now that there isnt always just one random crate. You unfortunately dont seem to have learned that though.

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