Ports' vill cost — 90f

[Gendarme]

I smell misunderstanding. I didn't ask for the game to be balanced for low-level play; I explicitly said that balance is more or less irrelevant for low-level play. What I am saying is that in the process of balancing the game, let's change it as subtly as possible, so that the spirit of the game and the civilizations does not wither.

I haven't played AoE2 HD, but I think people love it because they improved the game without ruining the nostalgia/legacy/spirit/idontknowwhatwordtousetbh. I know that the remastered version of Grim Fandango was very well recieved, because they managed to graphically enhance a seventeen year-old game without making changes to the actual game. Nostalrius was an incredibly popular vanilla-WoW private server, not because it was balanced or better than The Burning Crusade in any sensible way (although it is probably better than the expansions following The Burning Crusade), but because nostalgia is real, and powerful. (I heard that they even kept the bugs as they were back in 2004 - even though removing them was possible.)

I know that if we give the Russians hussars and remove cossacks I would refuse to play with or against any Russian player. It feels wrong, and it has killed the civilization; it is not the same Russia I remember as a teenager. I really think the legacy of the game is being greatly underestimated, and it would be sad to put all this effort into a patch that won't be loved by many and split the ESO-players into two CRC-groups - perhaps doing more harm than good, even.

[momuuu]

85f

[Jaeger]

86.5f

[tedere12]

I vote for 100 food, I think port do fine on the EP high hunt TP maps even on RE. In fact I had some very close games against france, japan, brit on High Plains on RE patch

[Jaeger]

IMHO you should make the vills cost x @britishmusketeer

notification

[gibson]

50 food and decrease train time by 80%

[Gendarme]

decrease train time by 80%

It will be impossible to keep constant settler production when they train so fast. The additional Town Centers will essentially be rendered useless. Why do you want to nerf Ports after all the work to buff them?!

[momuuu]

So I think balance could maybe be improved with either 85 or 90f vills, itd make ports go from one of the strongest civ to hopefully more middle of the pack (which is a really small difference tbh, ports is not that OP I think which is why I proposed 85f). I do kinda see some arguments against this change of vill cost in general.

I didnt dislike it at first, re ports feel unable to actually do anything at all because youre spending so much on vills early game. In the mid-late game the port 3 TC engine is already great on re, and coincidentally thats the part this buff targets the most. Its just really insane how effortlessly ports boom up to 99 villagers. You can legitemately max villagers before the 20 minutemark as ports without actually investing significantly in eco other than the tcs you get anyways. Amplifying that part of ports with the 80f change might not be so desirable. It also unfortunately makes port kinda OP in team.

I do not know good changes that could be tested instead. I was thinking maybe giving ports an 800f shipment is interesting, although I fear thats a debacle modding wise since 700f is a shared shipment between all civs in the modding files.

[saveyourskill]

I feel like the cheaper vills thing is only for Russia, but it isn't that much of a big deal. Maybe ports start with 8 vills and 100 more food... because all civs are given enough food to train 2 vills from the start. That's why France starts with 300f on re if people were wondering why they start with an extra food crate to other civs. How ever maybe just 85f or 90f per vill is enough as 8v 200f port start would make them age even faster and make 10/10 stronger. Maybe just give them an extra vill at the start and make vills cost 90f-100f.

[zoom]

I'd love to see tested (from RE) -100f; +1S.

[deleted_user]

I'd love to see tested (from RE) -100f; +1S.

How would this affect early tp starts when ports need to chop for a house? -100f and 8/10 pop you're either going to be idled Or popped I'd imagine.

[iNcog]

If it ain't broke don't fix it. o_o

[momuuu]

If it ain't broke don't fix it. o_o

So the idea is that it is kinda broken? But iro/sioux are more of a concern for sure.

[zoom]

I'd love to see tested (from RE) -100f; +1S.

How would this affect early tp starts when ports need to chop for a house? -100f and 8/10 pop you're either going to be idled Or popped I'd imagine.

That would be interesting to see indeed.

[iNcog]

If it ain't broke don't fix it. o_o

So the idea is that it is kinda broken? But iro/sioux are more of a concern for sure.

it's not broken <_<

[deleted_user]

I'd love to see tested (from RE) -100f; +1S.

How would this affect early tp starts when ports need to chop for a house? -100f and 8/10 pop you're either going to be idled Or popped I'd imagine.

That would be interesting to see indeed.

Would you say that you would even like to see it tested? -100f; +1S, from RE, I mean.

[zoom]

Can't tell if stupid or trolling. Perhaps both..

[deleted_user]

Can't tell if stupid or trolling. Perhaps both..

Age of Empires forums in a nutshell.

[momuuu]

If it ain't broke don't fix it. o_o

So the idea is that it is kinda broken? But iro/sioux are more of a concern for sure.

it's not broken <_<

I dont want to offend you, but what was the last time you played at captain+ level on EP? XD

[spanky4ever]

Ports have their good sides, a new tc when they age up. Making wills cost 80 food is an overkill IMO. Make it 90 and they will still be very good

[iNcog]

Show hidden quotes

If it ain't broke don't fix it. o_o

So the idea is that it is kinda broken? But iro/sioux are more of a concern for sure.

it's not broken <_<

I dont want to offend you, but what was the last time you played at captain+ level on EP? XD

right before umeu vs kynesie

I look at patch notes, I look at tournaments, I read general gist of posts. Ports are very good, maybe top civ in team games. They're possibly number 1 in 1v1, but only by an oh so thin margin. hardly what i would call broken

ports are also unchanged since like the first EP, they were never blatantly OP and the same can be said for fr and germany before their nerfs really. they aren't a freewin civ. they were certainly a strong pick ever since their buff

I don't think ports should matter this iteration, I would rather buff lackluster civs like iroq, sioux (otto?), spain (? is it weak anymore?), etc.

[momuuu]

You could argue its not too good, but you're not doing a great job at doing so tbh.

[iNcog]

well I don't see compelling arguments in this thread.

More importantly than any argument, perhaps you could point me to a tournament game where the OPness of ports is portrayed.

[momuuu]

well I don't see compelling arguments in this thread.

More importantly than any argument, perhaps you could point me to a tournament game where the OPness of ports is portrayed.

So I think balance could maybe be improved with either 85 or 90f vills, itd make ports go from one of the strongest civ to hopefully more middle of the pack (which is a really small difference tbh, ports is not that OP I think which is why I proposed 85f). I do kinda see some arguments against this change of vill cost in general.

I didnt dislike it at first, re ports feel unable to actually do anything at all because youre spending so much on vills early game. In the mid-late game the port 3 TC engine is already great on re, and coincidentally thats the part this buff targets the most. Its just really insane how effortlessly ports boom up to 99 villagers. You can legitemately max villagers before the 20 minutemark as ports without actually investing significantly in eco other than the tcs you get anyways. Amplifying that part of ports with the 80f change might not be so desirable. It also unfortunately makes port kinda OP in team.

I do not know good changes that could be tested instead. I was thinking maybe giving ports an 800f shipment is interesting, although I fear thats a debacle modding wise since 700f is a shared shipment between all civs in the modding files.

I think the pick rate of ports is more indicative than a single match, but if you want just a single match: H2O vs Raphael game 2.

[spanky4ever]

some civs got nerfd to hard - and some got buffed to big. This is my review of it. BTW i think duch are doing very well IMO
I think the team did a good job with Russia, and brit, frensh are doing very good. Dont know about the German - maybe a step to far?
and what happened to Otto? I just cannot quite comprehend why they are not a civ played anymore?