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Germany Lukas_L99
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Posts: 670
ESO: Lukas_L99

06 Dec 2017, 01:13

Colonel Concrete wrote:
Lukas_L99 wrote:It is cause you have way more resources in total.


Actually you don't have more resources using Fur Trade and Food Trickle (for games longer than 87min), vs using say Food Silos and Rum Distillery. See my above analysis..


Most games don't last that long and in a mirror you're gonna be overrun without fur trade cause of fewer res and less strong military.
Greece tedere12
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ESO: Tedere12
Location: Greece

06 Dec 2017, 01:17

concrete is great
"Well, now you are playing otto, but tommorow you might become a rapist, or a serial killer" -VaneStoilov

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New Zealand Colonel Concrete
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Posts: 16
Location: Downunder (Aus/NZ)

06 Dec 2017, 01:38

Lukas_L99 wrote:Just compare the scores you can have with and without fur trade.


As a side issue: This is actually not fair scoring btw - the score doesn't reflect the fact you LOSE (swap) the food you traded for gold.
Instead it seems to count both the traded (lost) food and the 'free' gold towards the scoring.
e.g. So instead of say getting the score for 156.25k gold generation (from swapping 125k generated food: 125k x 1.25 Fur Trade), you instead get the score for generating both the 125k food (pre-trade) and the 156.25k gold (post-trade)! That's hardly fair, right?

(I could be wrong but this is what it looks like. Happy to hear if this is not in fact the case?)
New Zealand Colonel Concrete
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Posts: 16
Location: Downunder (Aus/NZ)

06 Dec 2017, 01:42

Lukas_L99 wrote:Most games don't last that long and in a mirror you're gonna be overrun without fur trade cause of fewer res and less strong military.


Depends what kind of games you're playing: ever beat 7x allied AI on 100% resource handicap? (without Aklaks genius/trickery!)
(You could say one gets a bit over-run in that case! Think like 900 post-imperial troops attacking you in short succession...): I lose most of my stockpiled resources very quickly in this case. With Fur Trade I doubt I would have enough food to get through the first say few minutes of attacks after Treaty ends..)
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Germany Lukas_L99
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Posts: 670
ESO: Lukas_L99

06 Dec 2017, 01:57

Colonel Concrete wrote:
Lukas_L99 wrote:Just compare the scores you can have with and without fur trade.


As a side issue: This is actually not fair scoring btw - the score doesn't reflect the fact you LOSE (swap) the food you traded for gold.
Instead it seems to count both the traded (lost) food and the 'free' gold towards the scoring.
e.g. So instead of say getting the score for 156.25k gold generation (from swapping 125k generated food: 125k x 1.25 Fur Trade), you instead get the score for generating both the 125k food (pre-trade) and the 156.25k gold (post-trade)! That's hardly fair, right?

(I could be wrong but this is what it looks like. Happy to hear if this is not in fact the case?)


It's like that in the statistics, but not in the score.

Colonel Concrete wrote:
Lukas_L99 wrote:Most games don't last that long and in a mirror you're gonna be overrun without fur trade cause of fewer res and less strong military.


Depends what kind of games you're playing: ever beat 7x allied AI on 100% resource handicap? (without Aklaks genius/trickery!) (I haven't, yet. But I have won vs 7 expert with 75% handicap and that takes a while! (You could say one gets a bit over-run in that case! Think like 900 troops in short succession...): I lose most of my stockpiled resources very quickly in this case. With Fur Trade I doubt I would have enough food to get through the first say few minutes of attacks after Treaty ends..)


Not sure if trolling to be honest, AI's are just bad and worth nothing, especially in treaty...
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Canada _NiceKING_
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ESO: _NiceKING_

06 Dec 2017, 01:58

Colonel Concrete wrote:
Lukas_L99 wrote:Just compare the scores you can have with and without fur trade.

So instead of say getting the score for 156.25k gold generation (from swapping 125k generated food: 125k x 1.25 Fur Trade), you instead get the score for generating both the 125k food (pre-trade) and the 156.25k gold

No

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New Zealand Colonel Concrete
Crossbow
Posts: 16
Location: Downunder (Aus/NZ)

06 Dec 2017, 02:24

_NiceKING_ wrote:No


Ok great! So its possible to get a higher score by not using Fur Trade then :) (In a long game..)
New Zealand Colonel Concrete
Crossbow
Posts: 16
Location: Downunder (Aus/NZ)

06 Dec 2017, 02:29

Lukas_L99 wrote:It's like that in the statistics, but not in the score.

Good to know, thanks.

Lukas_L99 wrote:..AI's are just bad and worth nothing, especially in treaty...


So you have already done this then?

If you haven't; try it - you might find it a challenge, even as useless as AI are, and with 40min treaty, and with the amazing OP French - it's difficult (for me anyway) to beat 7x expert allied AI with them all having a +100% resource handicap each (and me 0%), on a land-based map, using normal tactics (no crazy walling strats/pause-micro/cheats etc)...
(Of course it helps if you don't have Germans, Sioux or Russians on the map!; they tend to be the most annoying. But I usually set it as 'random' for all 7 AI).

On this note, since this is a French Treaty guide: does anyone have a recorded game of doing that: 1 vs 7 Expert AI +100% handicap with 40min treaty, using Fur Trade?
(I'm guessing this is only even possible at all using OP French?! Would love to see this with another civ too..)
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Germany Lukas_L99
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Posts: 670
ESO: Lukas_L99

06 Dec 2017, 03:55

Colonel Concrete wrote:
Lukas_L99 wrote:It's like that in the statistics, but not in the score.

Good to know, thanks.

Lukas_L99 wrote:..AI's are just bad and worth nothing, especially in treaty...


So you have already done this then?

If you haven't; try it - you might find it a challenge, even as useless as AI are, and with 40min treaty, and with the amazing OP French - it's difficult to beat 7x expert allied AI with 100% resource handicap (for me anyway) using normal tactics (no crazy walling strats/pause-micro/cheats etc)...
(Of course it helps if you don't have Germans, Sioux or Russians on the map!; they tend to be the most annoying. But I usually set it as 'random' for all 7 AI).

On this note, since this is a French Treaty guide: does anyone have a recorded game of doing that: 1 vs 7 Expert AI +100% handicap with 40min treaty?
(I'm guessing this is only even possible at all using OP French?!)


Nobody is playing treaty against AIs since it is no challenge at all. Just play online.
New Zealand Colonel Concrete
Crossbow
Posts: 16
Location: Downunder (Aus/NZ)

06 Dec 2017, 05:32

Lukas_L99 wrote:Nobody is playing treaty against AIs since it is no challenge at all. Just play online.


Haha. ok... I'm guessing you haven't done this then!
If it's "no challenge at all" I'd love to see a recorded game of it being done. I'm guessing why I can't seem to find this anywhere is not because it's no challenge at all but rather to the contrary; because its actually quite difficult!
Feel free to upload a recorded game of you doing this - if you find it so easy I'd love to see your strategy; perhaps it might even help me refine mine. Cheers!

Edit: I just won vs 7 allied expert AI with 100% handicap each, on 40min Treaty with French (with the same HomeCity card deck I posted up earlier; above post). Was a bit of a battle. If anyone wants to see a replay I'll post it up (somewhere). Some of the AI had scores around 7000!

Lukas if you or any other Ultimate Lamers (AKA fellow French players; in sticking with the post title) have done this using Fur Trade strategy I'd like to see a recording.. Yes this is an (open) challenge :)

Edit: Lukas I see you're the 7th highest ranked treaty player in the land!; so it probably will be easy for you!!
http://aoe3.jpcommunity.com/rating2/ladder?n=player&t=age3yTR
(Can we still be friends?!)
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Germany queenofdestiny
Lancer
Posts: 722
ESO: QueenOfdestiny

06 Dec 2017, 10:07

GRUDGE MATCH
LUKAS VS COLONEL CONCRETE
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Great Britain Hazza54321
Jaeger
Posts: 3508

06 Dec 2017, 15:34

EZ4concrete
Venividivici_w: i heard h20 signed up last minute. Prob waited for roby not signing up so he wouldnt get smashed again

Well, Im the best thing that happened to aoe3 - vane stoilov 2k17
Austria Foire421
Musketeer
Posts: 99
ESO: foire421

06 Dec 2017, 21:45

queenofdestiny wrote:GRUDGE MATCH
LUKAS VS COLONEL CONCRETE


Yea pls :D
New Zealand Colonel Concrete
Crossbow
Posts: 16
Location: Downunder (Aus/NZ)

06 Dec 2017, 23:05

Haha, I'll consider it if he first shows me he can beat the 'easy' AI using Fur Trade..

(Edit: I'm sure he'd kill me in no time in a match-up, judging by the ELO ladder stats alone, not to mention the experience differential! This isn't really about that though: I'd like to see how a pro tackles the 'macro' job of being vs 7 enemies simultaneously (as French, in treaty, since this is a French Treaty post) (i.e. taking on ~7x amount of troops; even if many are often sent on really ridiculous/pointless missions as AI tends to do; sometimes even back to their own base when it's not even under attack!, and especially seeing him using Fur Trade which I don't have much experience with really, as I don't personally like it much. Pretty much so I can watch and learn from him, and also so he can back up his previous comments about how easy it is to do.)
Austria Foire421
Musketeer
Posts: 99
ESO: foire421

06 Dec 2017, 23:26

Colonel Concrete wrote:Haha, I'll consider it if he first shows me he can beat the 'easy' AI using Fur Trade..


Alltho i heard Lukas is pretty Bad at the game i think he can :uglylol:
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United States of America Cometk
Lancer
Posts: 978
ESO: black_thought

07 Dec 2017, 01:40

grudge match lukas vs 7 ai
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New Zealand Colonel Concrete
Crossbow
Posts: 16
Location: Downunder (Aus/NZ)

Yesterday, 18:14

Surely someone has had a go at this by now?!
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Great Britain WickedCossack
Retired Contributor
Posts: 1447

Yesterday, 18:23

Aklak did 1v7 expert AI 100% handicap as French in supremacy mode and won. :o

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