[TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

No Flag charlemagen
Retired Contributor
Donator 01
Posts: 478
Joined: Aug 28, 2015
ESO: Charlemagen
Location: California

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

Post by charlemagen »

dicktator_ wrote:
charlemagen wrote:Completely reverting teepee would ruin sioux. I have not played in a while but spamming 20 teepees and needing a ton of space to do so makes sioux not fun. I like gichts ideas

Yeah fair point. Less teepees is good for maps like Orinoco or blitztreaty cliff. I thought about it more and now I think of you increase the build time too much you run the risk of making teepees horrible (if you can cancel the foundations with mortars). So I think the best way to balance Sioux is another incremental hit to teepees (another +20%, totaling +40% on teepees) while hitting the bison trickle hard. I don't know why you @Gichtenlord don't think it's problematic for Sioux to have a large stockpile of res pre 40 and a decent (still very low compared to other Civs but much, much better than RE) income later. Sioux by design are not meant to have a strong boom. They're meant to be a low eco strong mili civ with a few special gimmicks (wc fire pit teepee etc) that can win games. They're not meant to have a stockpile of res at 40 that can rival euro civs. I'd also like to add that theorizing and actually putting theories into practice are two very different things, and I have a few games against floko Sioux that we both agree indicate Sioux is too strong right now (there is one on my YouTube channel, that game was played on the most recent patch), and if need be we can play more (this time I'll play some Sioux as well).

I am on board, I would suggest making bison spawn 2:30 from tcs and agreed with nick, double teepee build time.
User avatar
United States of America dicktator_
Howdah
EWT
Posts: 1565
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
ESO: Conquerer999

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

Post by dicktator_ »

Right now this is what I'm thinking:
-Remove ageup bison
-Bison trickle must be teched in the farm tech (the one that atm increases the rate enables it), so no bison trickle in the first 18 mins when there are still hunts on the map
-Bison trickle is 2 mins as opposed to 1 min 30.
-(And of course the incremental teepee nerf)
Sioux will hit a much healthier score (~1700-1800), while the late game bison trickle is not effected too much.
steniothejonjoe wrote:I can micro better than 99% of the player base and that's 100% objective
:mds:
User avatar
China paddy_jai
Skirmisher
Posts: 106
Joined: Mar 10, 2016

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

Post by paddy_jai »

can u guys cut the china monk training times?
it takes ages to retrain him, while other civs retrain their heroes mostly instantly
User avatar
New Zealand JakeyBoyTH
Howdah
Posts: 1744
Joined: Oct 15, 2016
ESO: Ex-Contributor
Location: New Zealand

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

paddy_jai wrote:can u guys cut the china monk training times?
it takes ages to retrain him, while other civs retrain their heroes mostly instantly

Would they have to do this for India and Japan too?
Advanced Wonders suck

- Aizamk

Ugh Advanced Wonders suck

- Aizamk
User avatar
China paddy_jai
Skirmisher
Posts: 106
Joined: Mar 10, 2016

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

Post by paddy_jai »

JakeyBoyTH wrote:
paddy_jai wrote:can u guys cut the china monk training times?
it takes ages to retrain him, while other civs retrain their heroes mostly instantly

Would they have to do this for India and Japan too?


india and japan are fast enough i think,
they have train speed card
User avatar
Germany Lukas_L99
Pro Player
Donator 01
Posts: 2059
Joined: Nov 15, 2015
ESO: Lukas_L99
Location: Lübeck

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

Post by Lukas_L99 »

Don't lose it then :>
User avatar
New Zealand JakeyBoyTH
Howdah
Posts: 1744
Joined: Oct 15, 2016
ESO: Ex-Contributor
Location: New Zealand

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

paddy_jai wrote:india and japan are fast enough i think,
they have train speed card


China has its own train card, but it's really an overall characteristic that it's units train slow. Maybe using the banner train card to also train the monk faster? (Not all units tho cause then they would get super-op art)
Advanced Wonders suck

- Aizamk

Ugh Advanced Wonders suck

- Aizamk
User avatar
Bavaria Gichtenlord
Howdah
Donator 03
Posts: 1437
Joined: Nov 15, 2015

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

  • Quote

Post by Gichtenlord »

Didnt know hand mortars are super op
r]
User avatar
New Zealand JakeyBoyTH
Howdah
Posts: 1744
Joined: Oct 15, 2016
ESO: Ex-Contributor
Location: New Zealand

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

No they suck but I mean because then all train cards for art would stack and they would train super fast
Advanced Wonders suck

- Aizamk

Ugh Advanced Wonders suck

- Aizamk
User avatar
No Flag cptlethal
Crossbow
Posts: 27
Joined: Jul 23, 2015

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

Post by cptlethal »

dicktator_ wrote:My new list (China hasn't had much testing BTW, same with Iro), from strongest to weakest, in nats or out of nats I don't think it matters too much at this point

Sioux
Brits
China
Ports
Japan (below Germany and France in nats)
Germany
France (France can do decent against Brits tho)
Russia (Might be above Germany, France, and even Japan, but I'm not sure yet)
Dutch
Iro (probs above Dutch in nats)
Spain
India
Aztec
Otto (moves up above Aztec and around India level in nats)

As China and Iro haven't had much testing and the community (except for @supernapoleon) is realizing a better way to play Russia, this list is not final. Also my opinion changes every time I lose a game.


is this still your most up to date list
User avatar
United States of America dicktator_
Howdah
EWT
Posts: 1565
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
ESO: Conquerer999

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

Post by dicktator_ »

cptlethal wrote:
dicktator_ wrote:My new list (China hasn't had much testing BTW, same with Iro), from strongest to weakest, in nats or out of nats I don't think it matters too much at this point

Sioux
Brits
China
Ports
Japan (below Germany and France in nats)
Germany
France (France can do decent against Brits tho)
Russia (Might be above Germany, France, and even Japan, but I'm not sure yet)
Dutch
Iro (probs above Dutch in nats)
Spain
India
Aztec
Otto (moves up above Aztec and around India level in nats)

As China and Iro haven't had much testing and the community (except for @supernapoleon) is realizing a better way to play Russia, this list is not final. Also my opinion changes every time I lose a game.


is this still your most up to date list

Iro above Dutch and Russia and ports below Germany in nats
steniothejonjoe wrote:I can micro better than 99% of the player base and that's 100% objective
:mds:
User avatar
United States of America dicktator_
Howdah
EWT
Posts: 1565
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
ESO: Conquerer999

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

  • Quote

Post by dicktator_ »

My new list based on current meta and recent experience:
Japan
Sioux
France
Germany
Spain
China
Ports
Iro
Russia
Dutch
Brit
Otto
Aztec
India

Dutch-Brit is debatable
Sioux-Japan is debatable
Otto-Aztec is debatable
Yes I'm serious about brit
Sioux is really strong but not stupid op, same with japan
steniothejonjoe wrote:I can micro better than 99% of the player base and that's 100% objective
:mds:
User avatar
Czech Republic EAGLEMUT
ESOC Dev Team
Donator 05
Posts: 4513
Joined: Mar 31, 2015
ESO: EAGLEMUT
Clan: WPact

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

Post by EAGLEMUT »

India still trash tier? Damn..
Image
momuuu wrote: theres no way eaglemut is truly a top player
User avatar
United States of America dicktator_
Howdah
EWT
Posts: 1565
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
ESO: Conquerer999

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

Post by dicktator_ »

Yeah. India loses to aztec because with slow inf times they can't stop the Aztec push. India kinda beats otto but it's the same logic as with otto vs aztec, even tho otto can lose those matchups heads up they are a lot more versatile simple because they're a european civ and india/aztec aren't. Otto have the luxury of making mortars and not having to worry about running out of wood (Aztec) or coin (India) so I ranked them above both those civs.
steniothejonjoe wrote:I can micro better than 99% of the player base and that's 100% objective
:mds:
User avatar
India mohammednihal96
Crossbow
Posts: 4
Joined: Mar 16, 2016
ESO: mohammednihal96
Location: India

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

Post by mohammednihal96 »

@dicktator_ is this list for nats or without nats?
User avatar
Germany QueenOfdestiny
Retired Contributor
Posts: 2139
Joined: Aug 9, 2016
ESO: QueenOfdestiny

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

Post by QueenOfdestiny »

I think out of Nats... Imo Brits do not so bad in Nats and Jap is maybe not the best in Nats
shit juice :hmm:
User avatar
India mohammednihal96
Crossbow
Posts: 4
Joined: Mar 16, 2016
ESO: mohammednihal96
Location: India

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

Post by mohammednihal96 »

@QueenOfdestiny so out of nats spain better than all others?
User avatar
Canada _NiceKING_
Retired Contributor
Donator 01
Posts: 1795
Joined: Sep 16, 2015
ESO: _NiceKING_
GameRanger ID: 9999999
Clan: Xbox

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

Post by _NiceKING_ »

mohammednihal96 wrote:@dicktator_ is this list for nats or without nats?

nats
User avatar
United States of America dicktator_
Howdah
EWT
Posts: 1565
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
ESO: Conquerer999

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

Post by dicktator_ »

In nats VS out of nats is not that different. I don't create the lists with in nats or out of nats in mind. Taking a closer look at that list it's probably more accurate for out of nats. China is above Germany and possibly france in nats, and I'd possibly push iro above ports in nats as well. I need more games vs China as most of my China games have been with me playing China. The one time I played against China was as Germany out of nats, after a 6 week break and with me feeding 10k.
steniothejonjoe wrote:I can micro better than 99% of the player base and that's 100% objective
:mds:
User avatar
Germany QueenOfdestiny
Retired Contributor
Posts: 2139
Joined: Aug 9, 2016
ESO: QueenOfdestiny

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

Post by QueenOfdestiny »

It is a bit different imo... Like Ofc French musk are not the same like ports or Brits musk for example.
Spain isn't so good imo you drain pretty fast when you fuck up the first push (out of the experience as a pr 25 Ofc)
shit juice :hmm:
User avatar
United States of America dicktator_
Howdah
EWT
Posts: 1565
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
ESO: Conquerer999

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

Post by dicktator_ »

New list for current tr patch
Image
steniothejonjoe wrote:I can micro better than 99% of the player base and that's 100% objective
:mds:
User avatar
United States of America dicktator_
Howdah
EWT
Posts: 1565
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
ESO: Conquerer999

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

Post by dicktator_ »

I'm enjoying reading this thread again, cannot believe we still thought brits are the strongest into early 2017
steniothejonjoe wrote:I can micro better than 99% of the player base and that's 100% objective
:mds:
User avatar
Portugal sergyou
Lancer
Posts: 636
Joined: Apr 9, 2015

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

Post by sergyou »

dicktator_ wrote:I'm enjoying reading this thread again, cannot believe we still thought brits are the strongest into early 2017
are you sure brit are C tier though ?
User avatar
India TNT333
Lancer
Posts: 530
Joined: Sep 13, 2018
ESO: TNT333

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

Post by TNT333 »

A great thing about the TP is that it allows for a flexible meta and the tier lists of civs arent always stagnant; I.e. it fluctuates over the years unlike in RE where it's pretty fixe which civs are broken. Makes for interesting discussions.
"We are kings or pawns" Napoleon Bonaparte
User avatar
India TNT333
Lancer
Posts: 530
Joined: Sep 13, 2018
ESO: TNT333

Re: [TR Patch] Strongest/weakest civs

Post by TNT333 »

dicktator_ wrote:I'm enjoying reading this thread again, cannot believe we still thought brits are the strongest into early 2017
Was there any reason why brits was strongest in 2017??
"We are kings or pawns" Napoleon Bonaparte

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV