Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

United States of America dthrill_08
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Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by dthrill_08 »

I would like to know which is better or maybe even a mix of both. I fully upgraded Spain Musk actually has a lot of HP (with Arsenal upgrades and Church Upgrade). I was on par with my Brit partner in terms of HP ( Maybe I had higher HP. I can't remember). Obviously the Redcoat's attack power was slightly higher.

I guess it becomes situational. If I am fighting Dutch, German or French, I should use my Skimishers. The downside of this it will mess up my economy since we are usually more Food than Gold. Spain Rode are fast enough to get up close and do some damage so I guess I can do a Musk, Lancer and Rode combo.

Thanks for your input.
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Great Britain britishmusketeer
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Re: Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by britishmusketeer »

I believe skirmishers are the go to unit in treaty
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United States of America __Uhlan__
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Re: Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by __Uhlan__ »

skrim/lancer/musk with art of course I think is the way to go for Spain in treaty. Just don't over spam lancers becuase they will drain you the Spain eco is not exactly strong.
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Bavaria Gichtenlord
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Re: Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by Gichtenlord »

Depends on the match up. As a rule of thumb, if your opponent is lacking strong anti melee units (e.g port), you want to rely on rodeleros or any kind of anti cav native melee unit(e.g incans, zapotecs). In contrary, when your opponent has strong anti melee units, mostly well upgraded musketeers like brit or japan, you want to use musketeers and also a bit more of horse artillery
r]
No Flag tedere12
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Re: Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by tedere12 »

Gichtenlord wrote:Depends on the match up. As a rule of thumb, if your opponent is lacking strong anti melee units (e.g port), you want to rely on rodeleros or any kind of anti cav native melee unit(e.g incans, zapotecs). In contrary, when your opponent has strong anti melee units, mostly well upgraded musketeers like brit or japan, you want to use musketeers and also a bit more of horse artillery

doesnt port have upgraded musketeers?
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Re: Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by Gichtenlord »

tedere12 wrote:
Gichtenlord wrote:Depends on the match up. As a rule of thumb, if your opponent is lacking strong anti melee units (e.g port), you want to rely on rodeleros or any kind of anti cav native melee unit(e.g incans, zapotecs). In contrary, when your opponent has strong anti melee units, mostly well upgraded musketeers like brit or japan, you want to use musketeers and also a bit more of horse artillery

doesnt port have upgraded musketeers?

Their stats are not good enough though, which makes it easy for spanish melee units to trade well. Also most core port units like organ, goons and cassadors are very fragile to unctioned spanish melee units and die after few hits
r]
United States of America dthrill_08
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Re: Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by dthrill_08 »

__Uhlan__ wrote:skrim/lancer/musk with art of course I think is the way to go for Spain in treaty. Just don't over spam lancers becuase they will drain you the Spain eco is not exactly strong.


I keep hearing that their economy is not Strong. What makes their economy weak? They have a lot of Economy cards.
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Re: Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by dthrill_08 »

You know what, I think Skimisher+Rodelro combo could be nice with a few lancers to flank. Making Imperial pikemen is worthless?
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Sweden martinspjuth
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Re: Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by martinspjuth »

You should as good as always use some skirmishers. The question should be if you should use rodeleros or musketeers. Gichtenlord answered that question well.

If your musketeers had same/better hp as your britt mate, then your mate was doing something wrong. British musketeers should have 405hp and Spanish musketeers 352hp when they are fully upgraded. Spain will however have more attack (a whooping 80 attack for musketeers) since you should use 10 missionaries with the unction card. But ofc your other units will also be boosted by the aura from the missionaries, so skirmishers will have around 50 attack for example, meaning a huge 150 attack vs HI.

Skirms, rods and lancers are a good combo in many situations, yes. And right again, imperial pikeman are useless.

Even though Spain's eco isn't terrible, it is weak when you compare it to most other civs.
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Re: Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by dthrill_08 »

I should note that I don't play TAD. I play AOE3 original. That is why I can't find Unction card lol
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Re: Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by yurashic »

Gichtenlord wrote:
tedere12 wrote:
Gichtenlord wrote:Depends on the match up. As a rule of thumb, if your opponent is lacking strong anti melee units (e.g port), you want to rely on rodeleros or any kind of anti cav native melee unit(e.g incans, zapotecs). In contrary, when your opponent has strong anti melee units, mostly well upgraded musketeers like brit or japan, you want to use musketeers and also a bit more of horse artillery

doesnt port have upgraded musketeers?

Their stats are not good enough though, which makes it easy for spanish melee units to trade well. Also most core port units like organ, goons and cassadors are very fragile to unctioned spanish melee units and die after few hits


Portuguese musketeers have the same stats as British musketeers.
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Re: Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by Gichtenlord »

yurashic wrote:Portuguese musketeers have the same stats as British musketeers.

Are you sure about that? Did u count brit church up?
r]
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Re: Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by yurashic »

Gichtenlord wrote:
yurashic wrote:Portuguese musketeers have the same stats as British musketeers.

Are you sure about that? Did u count brit church up?


Yes, sure. The church upgrade is not worth it. -25% speed for 7-8% extra hp is bad.
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Re: Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by tedere12 »

I think its 20% hp
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Re: Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by _NiceKING_ »

Yeah, Infantry: +20% HP, -25% speed, it affects not just musks, it's worth it
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Re: Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by yurashic »

tedere12 wrote:I think its 20% hp


It's 20% base hp.
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Re: Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by yurashic »

_NiceKING_ wrote:Yeah, Infantry: +20% HP, -25% speed, so it affects not just musks, it's worth it


Yeah, it does not only affect musketeers, it also affects other infantry. They take ages to arrive to the battlefield or to stop running.
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Re: Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by _NiceKING_ »

yurashic wrote:
_NiceKING_ wrote:Yeah, Infantry: +20% HP, -25% speed, so it affects not just musks, it's worth it


Yeah, it does not only affect musketeers, it also affects other infantry. They take ages to arrive to the battlefield or to stop running.

incas take seconds to arrive to battlefield
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Re: Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by Gichtenlord »

Meh. Wont try to argue with you. We already did that some time ago on twitch chat and you called every treaty player stupid for using it
r]
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Re: Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by yurashic »

Gichtenlord wrote:Meh. Wont try to argue with you. We already did that some time ago on twitch chat and you called every treaty player stupid for using it


Nice that you remember.
United States of America dthrill_08
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Re: Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by dthrill_08 »

Lets get back on topic lol. Spain has a similar Church upgrade too which increases HP while decreasing movement speed. Spain Musk is like 375hp. Which isn't bad but I think it's probably the 3rd or 4th best musketeer in the game.
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Re: Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by Lukas_L99 »

Gichtenlord actually answered that question well, also you can't really ask if you should use musk or skirms since they have completely different tasks in your army.
But in most match-ups you wanna use rodeleros, they kill cav faster and synergize better with lancers+skirms in the back.
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Re: Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by sergyou »

yurashic wrote:
Gichtenlord wrote:Meh. Wont try to argue with you. We already did that some time ago on twitch chat and you called every treaty player stupid for using it


Nice that you remember.

Use ur brain then mr knows everything , in treaty mil buildings are close to the battlefield so speed isn't much of a factor in this case more hp > more speed .
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Re: Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by Lukas_L99 »

Well yeah that church up is worth it for sure, in treaty speed for units with range barely matters (it's not like they have 1 speed, just 20%(?) less). Also keep in mind that most treaty games are played on Andes where the incan upgrade gives infantry 20% speed so british muskets will be back at 4 speed.
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Re: Spain: Musketeer or Skimishers?

Post by yurashic »

Lukas_L99 wrote:Well yeah that church up is worth it for sure, in treaty speed for units with range barely matters (it's not like they have 1 speed, just 20%(?) less). Also keep in mind that most treaty games are played on Andes where the incan upgrade gives infantry 20% speed so british muskets will be back at 4 speed.


Speed is the most important stat in the game. The faster your units arrive, the more army you have out at the same time, so the more efficient you trade.

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