Silk Road

Norway NoName
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Re: Silk Road

Post by NoName »

"France + Russia + China" vs "otto, brit, jap" cough...

Im not 100% sure but I think this was the game you played right? http://www.agecommunity.com/stats/GameS ... =ZS_Treaty
United States of America dthrill_08
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Re: Silk Road

Post by dthrill_08 »

NoName wrote:"France + Russia + China" vs "otto, brit, jap" cough...

Im not 100% sure but I think this was the game you played right? http://www.agecommunity.com/stats/GameS ... =ZS_Treaty


Yup.... That was my first (maybe last) TAP match. I don't know yet about who is op and who isn't. All I know is that our Brit guy sucked. He was fighting the Chinese guy 1vs1 and I was sending him Hussars his way while I tried to fight the Russian. The French guy destroyed the Japanese. I don't understand why the Brit didn't make Culverin and Falconets since he was enclosed in his walls. I couldn't make artillery as easily because I was in the middle of the map. He is Master Sergeant too.
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Australia Gear_Head
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Re: Silk Road

Post by Gear_Head »

dthrill_08 wrote:
Gear_Head wrote:
dthrill_08 wrote:
I just tried TAD.... I hated it. What is up with only be able to build withing a TC line of sight. Plus those stupid Chu No Ku ( Chinese crossbowmen) are op.



Chu No Ku's, like any skirmisher type unit, are easily countered by hand cavalry and/or cannons. China is very strong in treaty, but a civ with good hand cavalry will deal with them pretty well.


I think I just had a bad positioning. The Chinese guy was not opponent I was fighting but I was sending my teammate help. Every time I sent Hussars they kept getting raped for some odd reason. Are people as trustworthy in TAD as they are in treaty? I could do a Treaty for 20 minutes, then after the 20 minutes we build walls and play like if it were Vanilla NR rules.


He may have had pikeman mixed in with his CNK's. This is where cannons really come in handy as they will wipe out the whole lot. :lol:

It probably depends on PR. I find the higher PR's are all pretty trustworthy (e.g Lieut+). Anything below Master Serg is a mixed bag completely. My advice is to find a few cool guys to play with/against, and run around with them. As you get to know more players in your skill level, you'll recognize the "frequent flyers" and feel more comfortable making gentleman's agreements like that with them. As in Nilla, make sure you clarify these agreements in the lobby BEFORE the game starts. ;)

dthrill_08 wrote:Yup.... That was my first (maybe last) TAP match. I don't know yet about who is op and who isn't. All I know is that our Brit guy sucked. He was fighting the Chinese guy 1vs1 and I was sending him Hussars his way while I tried to fight the Russian. The French guy destroyed the Japanese. I don't understand why the Brit didn't make Culverin and Falconets since he was enclosed in his walls. I couldn't make artillery as easily because I was in the middle of the map. He is Master Sergeant too.


Ok so here's basically what you need to know for Treaty in TAD:
Tier 1: France
Tier 1.5: China, Japan
Tier 1.99: Russia

These four are considered OP. Russia with promise of no Opri-box is often accepted in games, but with hesitation.

Tier 2: Portugal, Brit, Spain, Ger
Tier 3: Otto, India, Iro (map dependent - can be awesome but high skill cap)
Tier 4: Dutch, Sioux, Aztec (all need the right matchup and team to be viable, otherwise they are just too weak)
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Re: Silk Road

Post by dthrill_08 »

No. All he made was the xbow men and Steppe Rider.
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Re: Silk Road

Post by dthrill_08 »

Gear_Head wrote:

Tier 2: Portugal, Brit, Spain, Ger
Tier 3: Otto, India, Iro (map dependent - can be awesome but high skill cap)
Tier 4: Dutch, Sioux, Aztec (all need the right matchup and team to be viable, otherwise they are just too weak)



Thank you, this helps a lot. I feel I do very well with Ottoman because of years of playing. I just need to do Half Map wall. I will host games with 20 min treaty but 45 nr.
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Sweden martinspjuth
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Re: Silk Road

Post by martinspjuth »

dthrill_08 wrote:I feel I do very well with Ottoman because of years of playing. I just need to do Half Map wall. I will host games with 20 min treaty but 45 nr.

If you really like the hm walls and no running, you should try nr55 Orinoco. Quite a few players play that, and even though the treaty and the restricted area you can build on end at 40, as good as all respect hm until the 55min.
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Australia Gear_Head
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Re: Silk Road

Post by Gear_Head »

martinspjuth wrote:
dthrill_08 wrote:I feel I do very well with Ottoman because of years of playing. I just need to do Half Map wall. I will host games with 20 min treaty but 45 nr.

If you really like the hm walls and no running, you should try nr55 Orinoco. Quite a few players play that, and even though the treaty and the restricted area you can build on end at 40, as good as all respect hm until the 55min.


This this this. There is a sizeable nr55 community on TAD. You won't find many takers for any NR besides 40 and 55. The NR55 community all respects this HM rule and are generally pretty friendly. :smile:

Just keep in mind, Ottomans are even less useful in NR55 than they are in NR40 because they lose in most head-to-head matchups. They aren't quite Tier 4, but they probably would form a Tier 3.5 along with Dutch in this particular game.
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United States of America dicktator_
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Re: Silk Road

Post by dicktator_ »

Also china with their 2700 cowing eco can easily delete vills for a massive overpop, especially off Andes. This alone can easily make up for any weaknesses in wood/anticav/etc
steniothejonjoe wrote:I can micro better than 99% of the player base and that's 100% objective
:mds:
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Sweden martinspjuth
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Re: Silk Road

Post by martinspjuth »

dicktator_ wrote:Also china with their 2700 cowing eco can easily delete vills for a massive overpop, especially off Andes. This alone can easily make up for any weaknesses in wood/anticav/etc

With China's slow training off Andes you need a VERY large and safe fb to be able to maintain unit production fast enough, especially vs Spain. The only map where you really can afford that is Orinoco. Imo China loses, not like in the normal meaning, that a civ loses cos they are drained, but China loses because they can't produce units fast enough to stay full poped in fight, even if they have eco to spam for ever. They are simply pushed back and keep losing ground even if they are not draining. But... I guess we could agree to disagree :biggrin:
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United States of America dicktator_
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Re: Silk Road

Post by dicktator_ »

martinspjuth wrote: But... I guess we could agree to disagree :

Yeah I guess we should. I was antagonizing you and fishing for an argument earlier, kinda lame from me.
steniothejonjoe wrote:I can micro better than 99% of the player base and that's 100% objective
:mds:
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Sweden martinspjuth
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Re: Silk Road

Post by martinspjuth »

@dicktator_ and @Gichtenlord
Btw, even though I disagree with you, i find it interesting and educational to discuss things like this and to read your views on the matter. I always appreciate a good discussion.
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Germany Akechi_Mitsuhide
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Re: Silk Road

Post by Akechi_Mitsuhide »

pecelot wrote:
Akechi_Mitsuhide wrote:
dthrill_08 wrote:Is Silk Road worth using and does it work on Trade Route?

I actually like to use Trade Route for wood towards the end of a treaty match.

Silk Road also increases the resources you get from TPs

Thanks, I didn't know that! :O

There is an Ottoman strategy which uses the effect of Silk Road for both crates and TPs
-> The Silk Road Rush
http://aoe3.heavengames.com/strategy/10
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Poland pecelot
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Re: Silk Road

Post by pecelot »

That's certainly interesting, thanks for sharing! :flowers:
I wonder if we can incorporate it onto our strategy wall... :hmm:
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Great Britain oats13
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Re: Silk Road

Post by oats13 »

That used to be the standard way of Otto rush back then but it delays your 700w a bit too much- if you get 400w start or send 300w first AND get good food treasures you can age fast enough to slip in Silkroad back to back with 700w, effectively making the timings the same as 3 vil 700w 700c etc. but minus 3 vils and plus silkroad- don't know the maths on that one but you can still send 3 vils and 4 vils later ofc!
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Canada _NiceKING_
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Re: Silk Road

Post by _NiceKING_ »

Let's not forget that this is Treaty Discussion :hmm:
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Germany Akechi_Mitsuhide
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Re: Silk Road

Post by Akechi_Mitsuhide »

oats13 wrote:That used to be the standard way of Otto rush back then but it delays your 700w a bit too much- if you get 400w start or send 300w first AND get good food treasures you can age fast enough to slip in Silkroad back to back with 700w, effectively making the timings the same as 3 vil 700w 700c etc. but minus 3 vils and plus silkroad- don't know the maths on that one but you can still send 3 vils and 4 vils later ofc!

Yea, I got 16 win streak with this strat on Nilla. But I think I played against noobs to be honest :P

pecelot wrote:That's certainly interesting, thanks for sharing! :flowers:
I wonder if we can incorporate it onto our strategy wall... :hmm:

I think it would be great to put it on the strategy wall. And there are quite some nice strats on heavengames in general which we could include here :flowers:
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United States of America Anora
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Re: Silk Road

Post by Anora »

This thread diverged greatly from its original intent....

RE Silk Road increases both crates and trade route profit by 15%, which is not worth it.
ESOC Patch Silk Road increases both crates and trade route profit by 30%, which is generally considered worth it in the Ottoman meta, given that they are FFing naked or at least with a very light semi.
Obviously if you take out 90% of the game by playing treaty, that could change my input, because my game knowledge is all for Supremacy.

As for the subsequent conversation about China and France, again, treaty changes everything, but in my experience in the Supremacy Colonel community, France is very strong, definitely top 5 on almost every map, but China is hardly top tier. Their Colonial Age capabilities are abysmal, probably the worst in the game. Fortress Age is very strong, but too reliant on heavy cavalry to be considered unstoppable. Also, someone said something earlier in the thread about hand mortars being OP, which I have never found to be true. Sure, they don’t have any glaring weaknesses over other artillery that fill a similar niche, but they are simply below average in every category. Just a bit too few hitpoints. Just not enough range. Just too low attack. Just a little too expensive. Just a little too slow.

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