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Silk Road
Posted: 21 Mar 2017, 14:13
by dthrill_08
Is Silk Road worth using and does it work on Trade Route?
I actually like to use Trade Route for wood towards the end of a treaty match.
Re: Silk Road
Posted: 21 Mar 2017, 14:39
by NoName
Im not sure about it, and im not the best to ask for it. Here is atleast some opinions about it tho:
https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe3/comments/ ... road_card/EDIT: TAD > nilla
Re: Silk Road
Posted: 21 Mar 2017, 15:00
by dthrill_08
I keep hearing TAD is better. I might have to play it. I played the campaign but never online. A 30% increase in vanilla is actually worth it.
Re: Silk Road
Posted: 21 Mar 2017, 15:22
by Gear_Head
dthrill_08 wrote:I keep hearing TAD is better. I might have to play it. I played the campaign but never online. A 30% increase in vanilla is actually worth it.
I was one of the people who waited way longer than most to jump on the TAD bandwagon. I can say with confidence after playing it for 6 months that it is honestly this expansion that pushes AOE3 over the edge in the AOE2 vs AOE3 debate. With TAD, AOE3 is a much more complete game both in terms of playability and balance.
There is a learning curve. If you've never played TWC, you have not just 3, but 6 new civs to account for. The Euro civs also have some minor tweaks to mold into the overall balance with the addition of new civs. Also, No Rush games are improved dramatically with the addition of a few well-placed late-game-friendly cards.
Finally, TAD basically always has about 30-50% more users online at any given time than Nilla. What's even better is: you can always go back every now and again if you like, so realistically you're opening yourself up to more than double the amount of players you're used to seeing.
Give it a try. Not just once or twice. Try to learn the different nuances of a civ you are already familiar with - spend a few weeks and dive in head first. I'm confident you won't look back.
Edit: In answer to your original question, I'm pretty sure it does not affect trade route income. It is also not a part of Ottoman treaty meta on the higher levels which indicates to me there are better cards to include in your deck. Nice idea though!
Re: Silk Road
Posted: 21 Mar 2017, 15:56
by Akechi_Mitsuhide
dthrill_08 wrote:Is Silk Road worth using and does it work on Trade Route?
I actually like to use Trade Route for wood towards the end of a treaty match.
Silk Road also increases the resources you get from TPs
Re: Silk Road
Posted: 21 Mar 2017, 16:18
by dthrill_08
Gear head,
Thank you for your reply. When I get home I will try TAD.
Re: Silk Road
Posted: 21 Mar 2017, 16:18
by Gear_Head
Akechi_Mitsuhide wrote:dthrill_08 wrote:Is Silk Road worth using and does it work on Trade Route?
I actually like to use Trade Route for wood towards the end of a treaty match.
Silk Road also increases the resources you get from TPs
@
dthrill_08 Here's your answer mate. Also ignore me I stand corrected.
That said, it's still not a part of the meta so I'm doubtful as to its usefulness when you take other card options into account.
Re: Silk Road
Posted: 21 Mar 2017, 17:02
by pecelot
Akechi_Mitsuhide wrote:dthrill_08 wrote:Is Silk Road worth using and does it work on Trade Route?
I actually like to use Trade Route for wood towards the end of a treaty match.
Silk Road also increases the resources you get from TPs
Thanks, I didn't know that! :O
Re: Silk Road
Posted: 22 Mar 2017, 11:46
by dthrill_08
Gear_Head wrote:Akechi_Mitsuhide wrote:dthrill_08 wrote:Is Silk Road worth using and does it work on Trade Route?
I actually like to use Trade Route for wood towards the end of a treaty match.
Silk Road also increases the resources you get from TPs
@
dthrill_08 Here's your answer mate. Also ignore me I stand corrected.
That said, it's still not a part of the meta so I'm doubtful as to its usefulness when you take other card options into account.
I just tried TAD.... I hated it. What is up with only be able to build withing a TC line of sight. Plus those stupid Chu No Ku ( Chinese crossbowmen) are op.
Re: Silk Road
Posted: 22 Mar 2017, 20:29
by Gear_Head
dthrill_08 wrote:
I just tried TAD.... I hated it. What is up with only be able to build withing a TC line of sight. Plus those stupid Chu No Ku ( Chinese crossbowmen) are op.
The invisible treaty wall radius around your starting TC was Ensemble's initial reaction to the "no rush halfmap" community. I dislike it too, but at least it can't be argued with from a "fair" standpoint. It is wholly possible to build your entire base inside of this radius along with a starting military base (expand after treaty) and many walls. If you are familiar with the people you are playing with, you can make the game treaty 10 mins with a gentleman's agreement to not attack until X mins. I do this often with friends and it works great. Obviously you only need one moron to build towers near your hunts on your side of the map to decide it's not worth it, but you get that problem in Nilla too. Invisible treaty wall is the only surefire way to prevent that.
Chu No Ku's, like any skirmisher type unit, are easily countered by hand cavalry and/or cannons. China is very strong in treaty, but a civ with good hand cavalry will deal with them pretty well.
Re: Silk Road
Posted: 22 Mar 2017, 21:57
by _NiceKING_
dthrill_08 wrote:Plus those stupid Chu No Ku ( Chinese crossbowmen) are op.
France->China->all other civs
Re: Silk Road
Posted: 22 Mar 2017, 22:52
by martinspjuth
_NiceKING_ wrote:France->China->all other civs
Not completely true.
France > all other civs in any fight on any map (water doesn't count).
China is only 2nd best on Andes, maybe ori too, but even there some civs are favoured vs China, like Spain and Japan (even if they in turn gets beaten by some civs that would get beaten by China). If you go outside of Andes other civs can also become favored vs China, depending on the map.
Re: Silk Road
Posted: 23 Mar 2017, 07:22
by dicktator_
martinspjuth wrote:_NiceKING_ wrote:France->China->all other civs
Not completely true.
France > all other civs in any fight on any map (water doesn't count).
China is only 2nd best on Andes, maybe ori too, but even there some civs are favoured vs China, like Spain and Japan (even if they in turn gets beaten by some civs that would get beaten by China). If you go outside of Andes other civs can also become favored vs China, depending on the map.
Niceking is right and you, as usual, are wrong. The only hard counter to RE China is France, and that goes for any map.
Re: Silk Road
Posted: 23 Mar 2017, 07:49
by QueenOfdestiny
dicktator_ wrote:martinspjuth wrote:_NiceKING_ wrote:France->China->all other civs
Not completely true.
France > all other civs in any fight on any map (water doesn't count).
China is only 2nd best on Andes, maybe ori too, but even there some civs are favoured vs China, like Spain and Japan (even if they in turn gets beaten by some civs that would get beaten by China). If you go outside of Andes other civs can also become favored vs China, depending on the map.
Niceking is right and you, as usual, are wrong. The only hard counter to RE China is France, and that goes for any map.
No I don't think so Tbh....
Germany beats re china pretty well when there are no walls and I didn't try but I think Spain also beat China and yes it also depends on the map.
(I talk about treaty was to lazy to read every post)
Re: Silk Road
Posted: 23 Mar 2017, 07:57
by Gear_Head
This thread got me like
And on a more related note: I have definitely had some luck vs China playing as Spain. I have also done well as Portugal using Huss, Musk+Cass and Organs liberally. Culving the hand mortars is a pain but once you find your rhythm they're really not bad. Germany should do alright and I can definitely see Japan giving some trouble too, although I am not good at either of these civs so I can't say firsthand how they perform.
Re: Silk Road
Posted: 23 Mar 2017, 08:12
by Gichtenlord
No way that china loses vs any civ besides france on any map.
I think people just never saw a high level china gameplay and if you see some 1lts/captains playing china, they can obviously not abuse all of their strengths, while using, for example, spains strengths is so much easier to pull off.
Re: Silk Road
Posted: 23 Mar 2017, 08:14
by Gear_Head
Gichtenlord wrote:No way that china loses vs any civ besides france on any map.
I think people just never saw a high level china gameplay and if you see some 1lts/captains playing china, they can obviously not abuse all of their strengths, while using, for example, spains strengths is so much easier to pull off.
This could very well be true. All of my experience is vs 1st lieut / Capt because that's where I'm located.
Considering the OP of this thread, perhaps some leeway to the different skill level should be included in our advice.
Re: Silk Road
Posted: 23 Mar 2017, 08:22
by martinspjuth
dicktator_ wrote:martinspjuth wrote:_NiceKING_ wrote:France->China->all other civs
Not completely true.
France > all other civs in any fight on any map (water doesn't count).
China is only 2nd best on Andes, maybe ori too, but even there some civs are favoured vs China, like Spain and Japan (even if they in turn gets beaten by some civs that would get beaten by China). If you go outside of Andes other civs can also become favored vs China, depending on the map.
Niceking is right and you, as usual, are wrong.
Lol, that was uncalled for. Still sore after losing to Floko's Sioux with Dutch and because I said the mu aint so unfair (even still in Sioux favor) as it seemed from your game?The only hard counter to RE China is France, and that goes for any map.
China train units way too slow, are too wood dependent and can't build Native Embassies = imo they arn't the 2nd best civs on all maps. And Spain and Japan can counter China. It doesn't matter how good eco you have if you need 20+ buildings out just to stay poped.
Re: Silk Road
Posted: 23 Mar 2017, 08:29
by Gichtenlord
China can compensate their lack of wood with rattan shields, consulate armies, disciples and 2 explorers in cover mode bug. That should be enough to win vs spain and japan is not good on RE heads up.
Re: Silk Road
Posted: 23 Mar 2017, 09:10
by QueenOfdestiny
Gichtenlord wrote:No way that china loses vs any civ besides france on any map.
I think people just never saw a high level china gameplay and if you see some 1lts/captains playing china, they can obviously not abuse all of their strengths, while using, for example, spains strengths is so much easier to pull off.
ok ok tis is maybe rigth
Re: Silk Road
Posted: 23 Mar 2017, 09:13
by martinspjuth
Gichtenlord wrote:China can compensate their lack of wood with rattan shields, consulate armies, disciples and 2 explorers in cover mode bug. That should be enough to win vs spain and japan is not good on RE heads up.
I agree that China might win vs Spain if you play no nats. But most maps have nats, and Spain can spam them right into the fight. Even though China can make them, they don't have Embassies so their natives will have to travel very long to get to the fight + making their already wood dependency even higher. So with nats i think Spain wins.
As for Japan, why would they go heads up if they ain't good at that?
Re: Silk Road
Posted: 23 Mar 2017, 09:18
by Gichtenlord
Wihtout any nats spain gets completely destroyed. If you argue about a match up where nats are involved and a small amount of trees on the map aswell, then spain cant just spam nats aswell and when they are out of wood, they gonna lose.
There is a reason why spain only loses vs civ whcih have a superior eco or more military pop or both: They cant beat their opponent fast enough before they are out of ressources themselves. The same applies to spain vs china. China eco is just too huge and their lategame is superior.
Re: Silk Road
Posted: 23 Mar 2017, 09:31
by martinspjuth
Gichtenlord wrote:Wihtout any nats spain gets completely destroyed. If you argue about a match up where nats are involved and a small amount of trees on the map aswell, then spain cant just spam nats aswell and when they are out of wood, they gonna lose.
There is a reason why spain only loses vs civ whcih have a superior eco or more military pop or both: They cant beat their opponent fast enough before they are out of ressources themselves. The same applies to spain vs china. China eco is just too huge and their lategame is superior.
I agree with all, except that Spain won't be able to beat China fast enough. Spain with full nats vs China with around or less than half nats (rest is in training or walking to fight) should be a strong enough army to push down China before they are drained.
Re: Silk Road
Posted: 23 Mar 2017, 10:17
by Gichtenlord
That really depends on the type of natives and distance of native posts. I still think that china wins though, but we will never know, since treaty on RE is kinda dull.
Re: Silk Road
Posted: 23 Mar 2017, 12:34
by dthrill_08
Gear_Head wrote:dthrill_08 wrote:
I just tried TAD.... I hated it. What is up with only be able to build withing a TC line of sight. Plus those stupid Chu No Ku ( Chinese crossbowmen) are op.
Chu No Ku's, like any skirmisher type unit, are easily countered by
hand cavalry and/or cannons. China is very strong in treaty, but a civ with good hand cavalry will deal with them pretty well.
I think I just had a bad positioning. The Chinese guy was not opponent I was fighting but I was sending my teammate help. Every time I sent Hussars they kept getting raped for some odd reason. Are people as trustworthy in TAD as they are in treaty? I could do a Treaty for 20 minutes, then after the 20 minutes we build walls and play like if it were Vanilla NR rules.