Spain vs. Portuguese: Orinoco (RE patch, nr55)

[Meriwhether]

Assuming natives are in play, and both civs are played to their full potential, who wins?
Do the different natives synergize better with either civ? (Zapotecs/Caribs vs. Maya/Tupi etc.)
Is there a specific army composition that Spain should use only against Ports and not vs other civs? My main combo is skirm/lancer/nat with muskets for additional anticav.
Are Ports' 50 ranged mortars and tanky explorers enough to roll over Spain, or does unction provide Spain's units with enough damage to deal with this?
And if Spain does lose to Ports on Ori, is there any non OP civ that doesn't? Spain has kinda been my "counter" to ports on Andes, but doesn't seem to fare as well on Orinoco.
Lastly, would nr40 on Orinoco instead of nr55 make any significant difference in this matchup?

Wow, that's a lot of questions... Good luck!

[QueenOfdestiny]

Hi lol
What is your pr? Depends on what kind of lvl you play.
Imo Nats don't make the difference as long Ofc both players have Nats.
Ports can beat Spain as long they able to hold the skirm Lancer push this they do with hus musk.
If the ports player starts to play like this you should add more rods or some hus and in nr 55 kill maybe 20vill.
In nr 40 on ori is it not possible to kill vills.
Imo it's also important to train units as Spain from not to far actually with every civ but especially with Spain bc it's a civ to push.
If you like we can play some 1v1 soon.

Btw do you have a good deck? It's also a lot of decks are possible but not good

[dicktator_]

Assuming natives are in play, and both civs are played to their full potential, who wins? The MU is close on the RE patch,
but overall I'd give the slight advantage to ports. Explorers are just so strong.
Do the different natives synergize better with either civ? (Zapotecs/Caribs vs. Maya/Tupi etc.) Spain prefers maya so that they don't have to send bloodbrothers, and caribs because the carib nat contains an upgrade that boosts heavy infantry which the tupi nat doesn't have.
Is there a specific army composition that Spain should use only against Ports and not vs other civs? My main combo is skirm/lancer/nat with muskets for additional anticav. Rod > musk always. Never upgrade musk as Spain. What you need to do is have two groups of raxes, one main one of 5-7 training skirms, and a smaller one of 2-3 training rods. Other than that the composition isn't that different, rod skirm lancer nat culv mort. When you have a constant stream of rods you can dragbox rods from the stream and use them to kill cav if he tries to flank your art, tho for smaller cav flanks usually skirm dps will be enough lol
Are Ports' 50 ranged mortars and tanky explorers enough to roll over Spain, or does unction provide Spain's units with enough damage to deal with this? You have to delete vills as spain in this matchup. The reason why is because missionaries cost 10 pop, and explorers will constantly be distracting 15-30 pop of your army. So you always need to delete vills.
And if Spain does lose to Ports on Ori, is there any non OP civ that doesn't? Spain has kinda been my "counter" to ports on Andes, but doesn't seem to fare as well on Orinoco. France and China are probably the only civs that consistently beat ports on RE ori.
Lastly, would nr40 on Orinoco instead of nr55 make any significant difference in this matchup? better for spain

Wow, that's a lot of questions... Good luck!

Played this mu a couple times against hamberg

[tedere12]

I find rods and lancers bad on ori tbh because very often they have pathing issues and they even stop moving sometimes (freeze and do nothing) so you probably have to kill the organ guns and focus on skirm lancer. I think its a hard mu for spain, usually spain wins easily vs most civs from my experience

[jesus3]

I find rods and lancers bad on ori tbh because very often they have pathing issues and they even stop moving sometimes (freeze and do nothing) so you probably have to kill the organ guns and focus on skirm lancer. I think its a hard mu for spain, usually spain wins easily vs most civs from my experience

rods and lancer is def. the go-to thing, you have to remove the opponents walls first though and not overspam yourself. Keeping a decent amount of skirm, some culv and 1-2 mortars on the field will help with that. No way spain beats port in a ranged fight on RE

[Meriwhether]

Hi lol
What is your pr? Depends on what kind of lvl you play.
Imo Nats don't make the difference as long Ofc both players have Nats.
Ports can beat Spain as long they able to hold the skirm Lancer push this they do with hus musk.
If the ports player starts to play like this you should add more rods or some hus and in nr 55 kill maybe 20vill.
In nr 40 on ori is it not possible to kill vills.
Imo it's also important to train units as Spain from not to far actually with every civ but especially with Spain bc it's a civ to push.
If you like we can play some 1v1 soon.

Btw do you have a good deck? It's also a lot of decks are possible but not good

My pr the last year or so has been shifting around the 25-26 mark. Currently I'm a 25.
My deck is pretty standard, the only thing I do differently than most Spain players is use the team explorer card instead of the rodelero attack and hp boost. I do this because I use muskets instead of rodelero.
I'd love to 1v1 you sometime with this matchup, but I won't be able to play for a couple months after today. If I see you online sometime, I'll message you. My account is the same as here.

[Meriwhether]

Assuming natives are in play, and both civs are played to their full potential, who wins? The MU is close on the RE patch,
but overall I'd give the slight advantage to ports. Explorers are just so strong.
Do the different natives synergize better with either civ? (Zapotecs/Caribs vs. Maya/Tupi etc.) Spain prefers maya so that they don't have to send bloodbrothers, and caribs because the carib nat contains an upgrade that boosts heavy infantry which the tupi nat doesn't have.
Is there a specific army composition that Spain should use only against Ports and not vs other civs? My main combo is skirm/lancer/nat with muskets for additional anticav. Rod > musk always. Never upgrade musk as Spain. What you need to do is have two groups of raxes, one main one of 5-7 training skirms, and a smaller one of 2-3 training rods. Other than that the composition isn't that different, rod skirm lancer nat culv mort. When you have a constant stream of rods you can dragbox rods from the stream and use them to kill cav if he tries to flank your art, tho for smaller cav flanks usually skirm dps will be enough lol
Are Ports' 50 ranged mortars and tanky explorers enough to roll over Spain, or does unction provide Spain's units with enough damage to deal with this? You have to delete vills as spain in this matchup. The reason why is because missionaries cost 10 pop, and explorers will constantly be distracting 15-30 pop of your army. So you always need to delete vills.
And if Spain does lose to Ports on Ori, is there any non OP civ that doesn't? Spain has kinda been my "counter" to ports on Andes, but doesn't seem to fare as well on Orinoco. France and China are probably the only civs that consistently beat ports on RE ori.
Lastly, would nr40 on Orinoco instead of nr55 make any significant difference in this matchup? better for spain

Wow, that's a lot of questions... Good luck!

Played this mu a couple times against hamberg

Yeah I figured Ports have the advantage in this mu.
The reason I'm hesitant to use rods is because they often freeze and basically do nothing but waste pop lol.
They also have a really low base attack when they run out of missionary range and get absolutely demolished.
How many vills should I delete vs Ports on Ori to deal with explorers?

[Lukas_L99]

Yeah I figured Ports have the advantage in this mu.
The reason I'm hesitant to use rods is because they often freeze and basically do nothing but waste pop lol.
They also have a really low base attack when they run out of missionary range and get absolutely demolished.

Melee units freezing is indeed sad, but you shouldn't rely on the possibility of lag when thinking about the optimal unit composition. If the game goes smooth (as it should be most of the time) rods >>> musk combined with lancers.

[dicktator_]

Don't ever change your playstyle for lag, just complain if it lags

[Acolyte]

[Meriwhether]

Am I correct in assuming that Spain does better in this matchup on the treaty patch? Or does this patch help Ports even more?

[Hazza54321]

I feel like oos or stroke is the way to go in any nr55 game, if not just monitor and 52 att skirm

[Lukas_L99]

Am I correct in assuming that Spain does better in this matchup on the treaty patch? Or does this patch help Ports even more?

Spain is slightly better on TP while Ports are worse.