Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

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Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

While the new TR patch addresses some major problems with civ balance I find it incomplete and lacking in a few respects. My attempts to work collaboratively with them have been met with great resistance. Though the scope of this work is challenging I want to design a TR patch that allows for more diversity of game play( other than the dominant goon/ skirm combo) and allows for more card choices to become viable options.

This will allow more play styles to become viable.

Some things I wish to change:

make wall build times much longer to prevent games winning from wall spam alone.
buff cards that are good but not quite good enough to make it in a TR deck. Thus allowing for more diversity of strategy on ways to use civs.
Make sure all civs have good counters to every unit type they may face.
buff units considered bad and not worth upgrading like halbs and camels and others.
proportionate unit effectiveness vs cost and eco of civs.

Skills I have: understanding of civ problems, willingness to work and facilitate discussions.

Skills I need: how to create the programming for the patch. players to provide feedback and test.

With out a good team effort this will not work so I am looking for those who will help make TR the awesome game it can be.

Feel free to Pm me with interest and skills that one can provide. that will help me keep it organized so we can begin discussions.
topics about what others who do not want to participate but have suggestion will be made to come.

Thank you
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Bavaria Gichtenlord
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Re: Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

Post by Gichtenlord »

@Panmaster
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Re: Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

Post by Jaeger »

Pretty sure its not too hard to just change around a few numbers if you learn a little
last time i cryed was because i stood on Lego
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Re: Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

Post by _NiceKING_ »

editing game files isn't hard, you can learn it pretty fast
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Re: Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

Post by charlemagen »

Yeah i can show you what i know as well
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Re: Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

thank you for your support.

My reasoning for some major changes I have been tinkering in my head is this... the brief and unofficial history of Treaty...

Supremacy ruled.... game mostly balanced for this....
people wanted more epic battles so they unofficially made TR game modes
people petitioned the game makers to include it. and they did but did not balance game for it
people found the most efficient and deadly combo of units ruling out others
TR patch is made but is designed around the old meta of TR applied to SUP stats.
Evolution: rework game designed for TR and enables more effective melee units ( cause they all pretty much get countered hard) balanced stable economies and more dynamic deck options.
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Re: Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

Post by forgrin »

howlingwolfpaw wrote:thank you for your support.

My reasoning for some major changes I have been tinkering in my head is this... the brief and unofficial history of Treaty...

Supremacy ruled.... game mostly balanced for this....
people wanted more epic battles so they unofficially made TR game modes
people petitioned the game makers to include it. and they did but did not balance game for it
people found the most efficient and deadly combo of units ruling out others
TR patch is made but is designed around the old meta of TR applied to SUP stats.
Evolution: rework game designed for TR and enables more effective melee units ( cause they all pretty much get countered hard) balanced stable economies and more dynamic deck options.

You have to be careful about overbalancing melee units tho, because if they get to the point where they can force most of their ranged units into hand attack then suddenly they become really OP (see Nilla rod mass vs skirm/goon).
https://www.twitch.tv/forgin14

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Re: Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

part of the point is to break up the skrim goon combo which right now is too op, and boring to see play because they all resist each other. you would have to make more mixes like, musk, skrim goon to counter heavy rods. just small tweaks to things like speed and hp is all it takes. nothing drastic.
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Re: Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

Post by charlemagen »

a problem with mele units is the get stuck in lag, or 3v3 or team fights between multiple armies.
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Re: Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

that is true but we can not fix lag. not all games lag. Its not a suffice reason to not want effective melee for me.

it would be nice if the AI could move through lines of units easily but that is part of the strategic terrain advantage that still makes ranged units good too. I often make myself a path by moving a small group of units to the side. to form a hole in the center.
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Re: Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

Two patches for a dozen players? Nice.
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Re: Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

new patchs may always be necessary, once everyone find out what is OP and exploits it there will be a need for upgrade.
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Re: Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

Post by _NiceKING_ »

Patch update is coming very soon
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Re: Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

Post by _H2O »

Your best off working with the existing TR patch team imo. I agree the approach to balancing was a bit of standardize everything.
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Re: Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

i agree _h20 i would really like to but all my ideas are shut down without any testing or anything so it is frustrating I do not really feel like i would be accepted.
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Re: Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

Post by Gichtenlord »

howlingwolfpaw wrote:i agree _h20 i would really like to but all my ideas are shut down without any testing or anything so it is frustrating I do not really feel like i would be accepted.

The only idea u presented us was giving urumis shorter shipment duration. Stop being a dickhead just because we dont like ur suggestion.
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Re: Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

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Post by Rikikipu »

No offense here, but I got the feeling that howlingwolfpaw is the treaty version of thebritish
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Re: Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

Post by charlemagen »

Gichtenlord wrote:
howlingwolfpaw wrote:i agree _h20 i would really like to but all my ideas are shut down without any testing or anything so it is frustrating I do not really feel like i would be accepted.

The only idea u presented us was giving urumis shorter shipment duration. Stop being a dickhead just because we dont like ur suggestion.

dont flame for ideas gichten :p hes trying
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Re: Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

Gichtenlord wrote:
howlingwolfpaw wrote:i agree _h20 i would really like to but all my ideas are shut down without any testing or anything so it is frustrating I do not really feel like i would be accepted.

The only idea u presented us was giving urumis shorter shipment duration. Stop being a dickhead just because we dont like ur suggestion.


i am not calling anyone names I am suggesting a good way to incorporate them without changing stats or allowing to spam them. making them a viable counter to some situations. how does that make me a dick head?
I also talked about the discrepancy between jag knights and coyote runners as well.
And how sioux cetan bows with 34 range is excessive.
I also praise them on a good job for other changes they did.
You offer no other good suggestion to the things you did not like. so I suggest that they be treated like merc units with no pop but a limit to how many can be made.
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Re: Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

Rikikipu wrote:No offense here, but I got the feeling that howlingwolfpaw is the treaty version of thebritish


I do not make post to intentionally troll. I use logical thought processes to everything.

please explain that. just because you say you mean no offense does not mean you are not trying to offend. you just want to try to not look like a jerk for saying it other wise you would not have even said it to begin with.
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Re: Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

Post by _H2O »

Gichtenlord wrote:
howlingwolfpaw wrote:i agree _h20 i would really like to but all my ideas are shut down without any testing or anything so it is frustrating I do not really feel like i would be accepted.

The only idea u presented us was giving urumis shorter shipment duration. Stop being a dickhead just because we dont like ur suggestion.


Wolf you need to respect that amount of time and effort the team has put into balance already. They already made a good first move of getting the treaty balance much more in line. Now they can diversify.

There are the best treaty players thinking through ideas and limited time to do testing. So hopefully you understand that some changes might never make it to testing.

I am sure you have good ideas, I would suggest trying to limit your ideas to only a few and start there. It will help get to your best changes :).
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Re: Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

Post by charlemagen »

listen howling, I understand your intentions are well placed and you just want to try to further balance treaty. But frankly the few ideas you put fourth are not viable and your reasoning is inaccurate. I appreciate your concern and would love for you to further come up with ideas that myself and the TP FP team can look at and vote upon. That being said, India's main problem is not dealing with large masses of infantry but dealing with artillery mahouts, tigers, and the infinite war elephant shipment provides more than enough anti infantry units. You also have the consulate for Falconents. We fixed this to our standards when we buffed siege eles in our first iterations of the patch. The reason we disagree with the urumi shipment is because they simply are not great vs large masses of units due to them not being extremely tanky. They die before they even get close. India does not need urumi as there similar shipments are better and do not cost pop. I hope this was enough information to stop you feeling attacked and like we don't care. We are just trying to do our jobs as best we can. Thank you
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Re: Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

Post by charlemagen »

_H2O wrote:
Gichtenlord wrote:
howlingwolfpaw wrote:i agree _h20 i would really like to but all my ideas are shut down without any testing or anything so it is frustrating I do not really feel like i would be accepted.

The only idea u presented us was giving urumis shorter shipment duration. Stop being a dickhead just because we dont like ur suggestion.


Wolf you need to respect that amount of time and effort the team has put into balance already. They already made a good first move of getting the treaty balance much more in line. Now they can diversify.

There are the best treaty players thinking through ideas and limited time to do testing. So hopefully you understand that some changes might never make it to testing.

I am sure you have good ideas, I would suggest trying to limit your ideas to only a few and start there. It will help get to your best changes :).

Agreed, thank you ryan. We do want you to feel heard, just know we have a lot on our plates.
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Re: Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

Post by momuuu »

Rikikipu wrote:No offense here, but I got the feeling that howlingwolfpaw is the treaty version of thebritish

Didnt thebritish ended up trying to make his own patch too?

Anyhow, it seems your ideal patch goals differ from those of the treaty patch team, which is unfortunate. You can make your own patch but that'd probably only be for making theoretical ideas reality as a personal project. I doubt your patch would overtake the already established treaty patch which is widely supported by the top players and has a prrtty decent userbase.

If you want to influence the balance of a treaty patch that is being played, my guess would be that your best shot is working with the treaty team or just giving them ideas (personally I actually like reduced training time for urumi so thats something) that kinda fit within their vision on balancing.
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Re: Will anyone help me make a Better TR patch?

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

charlemagen wrote:listen howling, I understand your intentions are well placed and you just want to try to further balance treaty. But frankly the few ideas you put fourth are not viable and your reasoning is inaccurate. I appreciate your concern and would love for you to further come up with ideas that myself and the TP FP team can look at and vote upon. That being said, India's main problem is not dealing with large masses of infantry but dealing with artillery mahouts, tigers, and the infinite war elephant shipment provides more than enough anti infantry units. You also have the consulate for Falconents. We fixed this to our standards when we buffed siege eles in our first iterations of the patch. The reason we disagree with the urumi shipment is because they simply are not great vs large masses of units due to them not being extremely tanky. They die before they even get close. India does not need urumi as there similar shipments are better and do not cost pop. I hope this was enough information to stop you feeling attacked and like we don't care. We are just trying to do our jobs as best we can. Thank you



Thank you charlemagen, I appreciate you communicating with me even though our ideas are different. So I do feel you are listening and I respect you for that, and your skills in the game. I do and have acknowledged respect for the work for the TR patch. I have said in the past how excited I was that you guys made it. Most of the things done in it seem really good but some of surprised me (jag knights, 34 range cetans). France is now seemingly on equal terms and I used to HATE the france civ because of imbalances, so well done there! Making tigers LI was the right move, and reworking siege eles was the correct choice. really most of india changes were well done, just not complete in my mind. Even if you made urumis great that doesn't mean everyone would have to use them. People can still use chakrams, and vs some civs that use a lot of muskets like brits, japan, spain, it makes more sense to use them. I just want to see more options than designing a patch to play civs one way. So in rejecting that idea what does it do? nothing for you or the people that you play with, but in supporting it opens up other areas of the game that others can enjoy. all those anti inf units you mentioned do not fare well vs HI. gurkas are good at killing HI but so are skirms but if the chance one will always make cannon too. consulate shipments are slow to gather, they need so much time to accumulate 1600 res for 3 cannons and some cav. they are nice but only help in sparse intervals. I don't even really want to see india with cannon. Just with more urumi.

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