No vill limit; how many do you make?
No vill limit; how many do you make?
***This applies both to treaty and to supremacy lategame.
Since in most games people try to max out 99 vills, it seems that if there was no limit, people would go even higher; but how much higher (pop cap still 200)? Of course, the more vills you have, the more resources you gather, but the more military pop you have, the better you do in fights (which also translates to having more resources). I'm very curious about where the optimal point is.
I think it's very interesting to try to analyze the marginal utility you get from trading a vill for a military pop at different vill counts; for example you probably get much more utility from deleting a vil if you're at 160 vills vs than if you're at 50.
Since in most games people try to max out 99 vills, it seems that if there was no limit, people would go even higher; but how much higher (pop cap still 200)? Of course, the more vills you have, the more resources you gather, but the more military pop you have, the better you do in fights (which also translates to having more resources). I'm very curious about where the optimal point is.
I think it's very interesting to try to analyze the marginal utility you get from trading a vill for a military pop at different vill counts; for example you probably get much more utility from deleting a vil if you're at 160 vills vs than if you're at 50.
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- SenorCallen
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Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?
25 stupid question ovi....please make realistic questions
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Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?
(25 is the max vills otto can train before they waste resources upgrading villager pop)
- SenorCallen
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Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?
your telling me u actually play something else
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Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?
You actually can't mix sup and treaty like that. In treaty, people would probs go for 200 vils if there was no limit, then delete a part of those (not sure how many though). In sup, you would just stop at some point. Not sure how many either here, but my guess is a bit more than 100 vils, because when I'm playing germany, I still get 99 settlers + extra SW and it feels fine.
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Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?
Kaiserklein wrote:You actually can't mix sup and treaty like that. In treaty, people would probs go for 200 vils if there was no limit, then delete a part of those (not sure how many though). In sup, you would just stop at some point. Not sure how many either here, but my guess is a bit more than 100 vils, because when I'm playing germany, I still get 99 settlers + extra SW and it feels fine.
Ofc in treaty you get 200 during 40 mins and then delete them lol, i was curious how many you delete. I jnow with germany they delete 40-60 vills
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Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?
i'd just vil fight.
Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?
Without max training speed (Inca) most civs could probably maintain constant pumping of units with roughly 80-90 vill pop if the fight goes evenly.
Eventually as you get more resources the game becomes more about pop efficiency than cost efficiency, so then you'd cut vills as your bank grows and add them back in when it starts dropping. There won't be a specific equilibrium because the fight is always gonna go better or worse for one player.
Eventually as you get more resources the game becomes more about pop efficiency than cost efficiency, so then you'd cut vills as your bank grows and add them back in when it starts dropping. There won't be a specific equilibrium because the fight is always gonna go better or worse for one player.
Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?
forgrin wrote:Without max training speed (Inca) most civs could probably maintain constant pumping of units with roughly 80-90 vill pop if the fight goes evenly.
Eventually as you get more resources the game becomes more about pop efficiency than cost efficiency, so then you'd cut vills as your bank grows and add them back in when it starts dropping. There won't be a specific equilibrium because the fight is always gonna go better or worse for one player.
Wait so in sup you don't make past 80-90 vills? Even in treaty they keep 99 vills, they don't delete them (except germany, but they usually delete until they have 99, partly because they have one of the worst start armies, and uhlans are pop inefficient)
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Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?
I would make 100 vills because half your population should be eco
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Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?
I think I was more on the greedy side in AOEO and did 80v and 20 caravans or 60v 40c around there but I think average in each game would be 80 counting both vills and caravans. I think depending on super late game like everyone is in age 5 I think 110v is fine(for sup). With 120 or more I would just be ending up having too much bank and sending 90k to my team just to lose because I don't have enough pop to send it on. Just depends how your many vills you need for your spam.
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Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?
saveyourskill wrote:I think I was more on the greedy side in AOEO and did 80v and 20 caravans or 60v 40c around there but I think average in each game would be 80 counting both vills and caravans. I think depending on super late game like everyone is in age 5 I think 110v is fine(for sup). With 120 or more I would just be ending up having too much bank and sending 90k to my team just to lose because I don't have enough pop to send it on. Just depends how your many vills you need for your spam.
Well in treaty they have 99 vills all the time and they still run out of resources, so at some point you should be able to fight continously like in treaty and use your resources
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Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?
HeatitUP_ wrote:I would make 100 vills because half your population should be eco
Why not 101?
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Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?
ovi12 wrote:HeatitUP_ wrote:I would make 100 vills because half your population should be eco
Why not 101?
cuz the population limit is fixed at 200 UNLESS you get a treasure that increases your population limit!
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Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?
HeatitUP_ wrote:ovi12 wrote:HeatitUP_ wrote:I would make 100 vills because half your population should be eco
Why not 101?
cuz the population limit is fixed at 200 UNLESS you get a treasure that increases your population limit!
But why exactly half :O?
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Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?
@H2O_
H2O_ wrote:notification
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Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?
ovi12 wrote:forgrin wrote:Without max training speed (Inca) most civs could probably maintain constant pumping of units with roughly 80-90 vill pop if the fight goes evenly.
Eventually as you get more resources the game becomes more about pop efficiency than cost efficiency, so then you'd cut vills as your bank grows and add them back in when it starts dropping. There won't be a specific equilibrium because the fight is always gonna go better or worse for one player.
Wait so in sup you don't make past 80-90 vills? Even in treaty they keep 99 vills, they don't delete them (except germany, but they usually delete until they have 99, partly because they have one of the worst start armies, and uhlans are pop inefficient)
If we're thinking about a sup lategame scenario, once you have capitol upgrades you probably don't need 99 vills to maintain 200 pop (as long as you have h20 kinda deck with a couple mill/plant cards thrown in). You gotta keep in mind that training time is so much slower in normal sup vs treaty (esp in nats) since most people don't have training cards in their decks. This means you don't spend nearly as much on army since both you and your opponent would constantly have roughly 20-30 pop in training queues, maybe more, so units would die more slowly.
Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?
ovi12 wrote:@H2O_H2O_ wrote:notification
All of the women on The Apprentice flirted with me - consciously or unconsciously. That's to be expected. - Donald Trump
Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?
HeatitUP_ wrote:ovi12 wrote:@H2O_H2O_ wrote:notification
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Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?
+-10% of what your opponent maintain should be optimal imo considering a fair game ( same civ same skill level ) it would be more situational than a straight out answer, cuz if you cut less you will just get rolled by Superior mass unless you lose badly in art war which shouldn't happen.
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Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?
Theoretically the optimal abstract villager count is the minimum needed to maintain military production.
The warchief civs have a card that gives villagers 33 hand attack which combined with pioneers might make 200 vil pop an interesting possibility.
The warchief civs have a card that gives villagers 33 hand attack which combined with pioneers might make 200 vil pop an interesting possibility.
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Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?
hm there are situation where you get above 99 vils ( sea ) . In any case i would never make more than 120 vill max. Thats also the magic number in aoc where you can theoretically make 200 vills. it also dpeneds strongly on the state of the game. Lets say you reach 99 vills in late age 3 and youre aging up to IV . Then id def make around 120ish vills maybe even more. Becasue im gonna need lots of eco to support production and getting upgrades. If i then want to try to go to age 5 id keep that amount of vills obv for extra economy. However if i try to close out the game in IV 120 vills could be to much (assuming ive already gotten all the ups and all i want is max mili pop ).
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Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?
umeu wrote:i'd just vil fight.
Yeah a use for that Sioux card...
Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?
lordraphael wrote:hm there are situation where you get above 99 vils ( sea ) . In any case i would never make more than 120 vill max. Thats also the magic number in aoc where you can theoretically make 200 vills. it also dpeneds strongly on the state of the game. Lets say you reach 99 vills in late age 3 and youre aging up to IV . Then id def make around 120ish vills maybe even more. Becasue im gonna need lots of eco to support production and getting upgrades. If i then want to try to go to age 5 id keep that amount of vills obv for extra economy. However if i try to close out the game in IV 120 vills could be to much (assuming ive already gotten all the ups and all i want is max mili pop ).
Yeah another situation is cree cdb
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Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?
I'd get 244 as iroquois -> Firepit population dance + 20 vill imperial age up
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