No vill limit; how many do you make?

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Sweden martinspjuth
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Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?

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Post by martinspjuth »

ovi12 wrote:Tbh I'm kindda surprised that in treaty, civs with a large bank (like germany) don't just delete all but like 5 FB vills. It's true that if the enemy deletes only 90 vills he will (maybe?) outeco you and win, but no one can know for sure how many vills the other player deleted; so if you delete 94 and suspect your opponent deleted only 85, you can retrain like 15-20 more and outeco him in turn, most likely without him noticing the small difference (it becomes even less noticeable if you split) @Gichtenlord @charlemagen @Lukas_L99 @dicktator_


There are a few reasons why killing a lot of settlers at end of treaty rarely works:

1. The pathing issue grows as the army grows.

2. In most maps it is too easy for the enemy to wall up and camp, and if needed kill a few settlers of his own. While you are busy killing walls worth 5 wood, he is gathering ress in thousands. So once you are on the verge of breaking into his base, he can just kill as many settlers as he needs to hold you, confident his now stronger eco should beat yours. This deffenders advantage (vs a 200pop push) grows larger and larger as the maps grows in size. This is one of the reasons killing more settlers are more viable in 1v1>2v2>3v3.

3. In team games your mates can fall back and camp with walls and towers while sending some pop/ress to you.

4. The most frequently played map in nr40 is Andes. In Andes you can spam units very fast, so even against a 200pop army, you are likely to have atleast 70-80pop fighting (rest in training or walking to the battle) which is enough to deal quite a good amount of damage and slow down the enemy's push (if done correctly with walls and good cannon micro).

5. In other maps (maps without inca tech) killing settlers (maybe 20-30, not neccecary all of them XD ) can be a more viable option, also for other civs than ger. The reason is that it takes longer to retrain lost units, so the bigger army gets more of a snowball effect, i.e the effect @Kaiserklein talked about has a greater effect here than in Andes. (Is there a proper name for this effect?)

6. Killing alot of settlers rarely works in nr55 either, even though you have hugh banks of ress. The enemy just have to kill a few settlers of his own, (but less than you killed) to hold you. Then all he has to do is wait for you to drain. The exception to this could be Spain. If they kill around 60 settlers and have nats, their army get incredibly strong. It can be hard to stop it even if you kill 60 (or more) settlers of your own. So there is a chance he can push you down before he is out of ress.

7. People rarely boom 40/55 min to use a strategy that makes them win or lose the game in less than 10min of fighting.

8. Killing settlers are better used in a critical moment, when the extra pop can make the difference of either stopping enemy from entering your eco, or when it can help you enter his.

9. The only times i've seen dropping to less than 50 settler pop at end of treaty actually work are in 1v1 and 2v2 as Spain in nr55 Orinoco and in 1v1 and 2v2 as Germany in nr40 Andes (you lose nat=you lost).

As for how many settlers i would make if there wasn't any limit it varies alot from civ to civ and on who i am facing. I think the viable settler range (that is not an ALL IN strategy) after treaty could be 60-140 settler pop. Depending on civ, map, matchup and style of opponent (pusher or camper for example). With more than 140 settlers, you wouldn't have much of an army to do anything with. It would just get shot to pieces before dealing any kind of damage. With less than 60 settlers you will drain to fast and have to much pathing issues for it to be optimal.
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No Flag Jaeger
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Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?

Post by Jaeger »

martinspjuth wrote:
ovi12 wrote:Tbh I'm kindda surprised that in treaty, civs with a large bank (like germany) don't just delete all but like 5 FB vills. It's true that if the enemy deletes only 90 vills he will (maybe?) outeco you and win, but no one can know for sure how many vills the other player deleted; so if you delete 94 and suspect your opponent deleted only 85, you can retrain like 15-20 more and outeco him in turn, most likely without him noticing the small difference (it becomes even less noticeable if you split) @Gichtenlord @charlemagen @Lukas_L99 @dicktator_


There are a few reasons why killing a lot of settlers at end of treaty rarely works:

1. The pathing issue grows as the army grows.

2. In most maps it is too easy for the enemy to wall up and camp, and if needed kill a few settlers of his own. While you are busy killing walls worth 5 wood, he is gathering ress in thousands. So once you are on the verge of breaking into his base, he can just kill as many settlers as he needs to hold you, confident his now stronger eco should beat yours. This deffenders advantage (vs a 200pop push) grows larger and larger as the maps grows in size. This is one of the reasons killing more settlers are more viable in 1v1>2v2>3v3.

3. In team games your mates can fall back and camp with walls and towers while sending some pop/ress to you.

4. The most frequently played map in nr40 is Andes. In Andes you can spam units very fast, so even against a 200pop army, you are likely to have atleast 70-80pop fighting (rest in training or walking to the battle) which is enough to deal quite a good amount of damage and slow down the enemy's push (if done correctly with walls and good cannon micro).

5. In other maps (maps without inca tech) killing settlers (maybe 20-30, not neccecary all of them XD ) can be a more viable option, also for other civs than ger. The reason is that it takes longer to retrain lost units, so the bigger army gets more of a snowball effect, i.e the effect @Kaiserklein talked about has a greater effect here than in Andes. (Is there a proper name for this effect?)

6. Killing alot of settlers rarely works in nr55 either, even though you have hugh banks of ress. The enemy just have to kill a few settlers of his own, (but less than you killed) to hold you. Then all he has to do is wait for you to drain. The exception to this could be Spain. If they kill around 60 settlers and have nats, their army get incredibly strong. It can be hard to stop it even if you kill 60 (or more) settlers of your own. So there is a chance he can push you down before he is out of ress.

7. People rarely boom 40/55 min to use a strategy that makes them win or lose the game in less than 10min of fighting.

8. Killing settlers are better used in a critical moment, when the extra pop can make the difference of either stopping enemy from entering your eco, or when it can help you enter his.

9. The only times i've seen dropping to less than 50 settler pop at end of treaty actually work are in 1v1 and 2v2 as Spain in nr55 Orinoco and in 1v1 and 2v2 as Germany in nr40 Andes (you lose nat=you lost).

As for how many settlers i would make if there wasn't any limit it varies alot from civ to civ and on who i am facing. I think the viable settler range (that is not an ALL IN strategy) after treaty could be 60-140 settler pop. Depending on civ, map, matchup and style of opponent (pusher or camper for example). With more than 140 settlers, you wouldn't have much of an army to do anything with. It would just get shot to pieces before dealing any kind of damage. With less than 60 settlers you will drain to fast and have to much pathing issues for it to be optimal.


Thanks for the thorough response, this is exactly what I was looking for
last time i cryed was because i stood on Lego
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Sweden martinspjuth
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Joined: Sep 18, 2015
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Re: No vill limit; how many do you make?

Post by martinspjuth »

Glad i could help :smile:

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