Is the community getting better?

Germany supernapoleon
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Is the community getting better?

Post by supernapoleon »

Hi, I wonder if the community is getting better and how it developed over tge years. Would i beat a player of my rank back in 2008-11?
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Re: Is the community getting better?

Post by iNcog »

supernapoleon wrote:Would i beat a player of my rank back in 2008-11?


i'd say you could do it but you'd not be the favorite to win

e: this is treaty, damn it. i might be full of shit
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20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Bavaria Gichtenlord
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Re: Is the community getting better?

Post by Gichtenlord »

supernapoleon wrote:Hi, I wonder if the community is getting better and how it developed over tge years. Would i beat a player of my rank back in 2008-11?

You would probably the best in the past with ur current skill. Most of the former top players would be around 1lt-captain nowadays.
r]
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Re: Is the community getting better?

Post by supernapoleon »

haha cool. I just wonder if they have already used hotkeys mods etc and if each civ were optimized
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Re: Is the community getting better?

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Post by dicktator_ »

Treaty players have definitely gotten better over the years. This fact is indisputable. We've gotten faster in general, art micro has improved greatly, and we don't make as many dumb compositional mistakes as we used to. Additionally, more treaty players are using hotkeys. The only argument for old players being better is that they split more and took more map control, whereas newer players lean more towards just fighting in one spot. I would argue, however, that if I fought someone with good splitting/mapcontrol skills but poor heads up fighting skills, I would win. Just because we don't focus as much on map control/splitting/etc doesn't mean we can't. I'm fast enough that I could easily just change my playstyle and beat it. Admittedly I might struggle during the first game, especially if I don't expect it.

No disrespect intended for the guys who helped make treaty what it is today.
steniothejonjoe wrote:I can micro better than 99% of the player base and that's 100% objective
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Re: Is the community getting better?

Post by stonecold316 »

interesting take on it personally i quit for 5 years and once returns players that were average are very good now and the micro is alot better than it was back in the day as dicktator said
im no where near as good as i used to be but the competition now is alot harder than it was 5-6 years ago that i am sure of.
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Re: Is the community getting better?

Post by vaso413 »

I returned several months ago after a 7-year break, and I fell from PR 29 to 22(1v1 player here). I think this is down to the new fortress-based meta and lack of head-on rushes. You couldn't see things such as containment in about my PR level anywhere 6-7 years ago.
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Re: Is the community getting better?

Post by OliverP »

ye its pretty crazy.. the last time i stopped aoe for like 2 years or something lukas_l99 was still a scrub.. never heard of dicktator back then either and king_ownage2nd was just running around with germans if i remember correctly.

as dick said: skilllevel rose but mapcontrol and stuff aren't as important nowadays it seems.
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Re: Is the community getting better?

Post by momuuu »

The meta changes which is often associated with better I think, and that us partially true. One would have to note that h2o's level when stepping into the treaty community like he has been doing every once in a while is the same, and I think h2o would claim that hes worse than he used to be.
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Re: Is the community getting better?

Post by pecelot »

vaso413 wrote:I returned several months ago after a 7-year break, and I fell from PR 29 to 22(1v1 player here). I think this is down to the new fortress-based meta and lack of head-on rushes. You couldn't see things such as containment in about my PR level anywhere 6-7 years ago.

how do you rush in treaty :?:
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Re: Is the community getting better?

Post by iNcog »

I'm assuming it's the big fight at 40 minutes.
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Garja wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Is the community getting better?

Post by dicktator_ »

OliverP wrote:ye its pretty crazy.. the last time i stopped aoe for like 2 years or something lukas_l99 was still a scrub.. never heard of dicktator back then either and king_ownage2nd was just running around with germans if i remember correctly.

as dick said: skilllevel rose but mapcontrol and stuff aren't as important nowadays it seems.

What are you talking about, Lukas is still a scrub... jk. I played on Conquerer999 back in 2011, didn't start with dicktator until 2012, and I remember I was pretty bad, nearly every time I joined a game with decent players I got owned. Late 2012/early 2013 was when I started to get really good. King was mostly playing Deccan in 2011 iirc, he started playing more Andes in 2012 and mid 2012 was when he got good.

IIRC when H2O played treaty in 2011 he rolled everyone except for Stormcoming, and even then Stormcoming was often saved by lag (they usually fought in teamgames, I remember H2O actually beating Stormcoming in an unrated 1v1). He's back in treaty and now a number of players that can beat him (the treaty community isn't as big now as it used to be). H2O's treaty skill relative to the number of treaty games he's played is obviously really really good, but I'm sure if you asked him he'd say today's players are better.

The point I was trying to make is that if I fought any 2011 or earlier player in their prime, at my current skill level, I would win. Same goes for Lukas, charlemagen, and sabusa, they would beat any player from 2011 or earlier. I feel like when people say old players were better that disrespects the skill of the current players and the time and effort we put into getting to where we are now.
steniothejonjoe wrote:I can micro better than 99% of the player base and that's 100% objective
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Re: Is the community getting better?

Post by stonecold316 »

its funny how u say that because use players of new forget about the players of old i remember sabusa and alot of those guys calling me eco cheat for almost a year b4 i told them about the 7 per mill or plantation trick
hell i was called noob for ages for deleting stubs in wall now every1 does it
u forget all these little tricks of today come from somewhere and get perfected dont be so cold to disrespect the players of old
use guys only got better from learning from it from some1 once upon a time
dont forget that
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Re: Is the community getting better?

Post by momuuu »

dicktator_ wrote:
OliverP wrote:ye its pretty crazy.. the last time i stopped aoe for like 2 years or something lukas_l99 was still a scrub.. never heard of dicktator back then either and king_ownage2nd was just running around with germans if i remember correctly.

as dick said: skilllevel rose but mapcontrol and stuff aren't as important nowadays it seems.

What are you talking about, Lukas is still a scrub... jk. I played on Conquerer999 back in 2011, didn't start with dicktator until 2012, and I remember I was pretty bad, nearly every time I joined a game with decent players I got owned. Late 2012/early 2013 was when I started to get really good. King was mostly playing Deccan in 2011 iirc, he started playing more Andes in 2012 and mid 2012 was when he got good.

IIRC when H2O played treaty in 2011 he rolled everyone except for Stormcoming, and even then Stormcoming was often saved by lag (they usually fought in teamgames, I remember H2O actually beating Stormcoming in an unrated 1v1). He's back in treaty and now a number of players that can beat him (the treaty community isn't as big now as it used to be). H2O's treaty skill relative to the number of treaty games he's played is obviously really really good, but I'm sure if you asked him he'd say today's players are better.

The point I was trying to make is that if I fought any 2011 or earlier player in their prime, at my current skill level, I would win. Same goes for Lukas, charlemagen, and sabusa, they would beat any player from 2011 or earlier. I feel like when people say old players were better that disrespects the skill of the current players and the time and effort we put into getting to where we are now.

Hmm, did h2o really beat everyone back then? I personally remember it as being fairly even. If he did, that does settle all old treaty vs sup debates I suppose.

I must admit that as an outsider the strategic aspects of treaty seemed pretty underdeveloped in 2010-2012. But I suppose reading around in sup topics here might make you feel the same.
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Re: Is the community getting better?

Post by edeholland »

stonecold316 wrote:its funny how u say that because use players of new forget about the players of old i remember sabusa and alot of those guys calling me eco cheat for almost a year b4 i told them about the 7 per mill or plantation trick
hell i was called noob for ages for deleting stubs in wall now every1 does it
u forget all these little tricks of today come from somewhere and get perfected dont be so cold to disrespect the players of old
use guys only got better from learning from it from some1 once upon a time
dont forget that


What is there to be perfected about 7 vills per mill or deleting stubs?

There is nothing the old guys found out and learned the new people that isn't very simple
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Re: Is the community getting better?

Post by OliverP »

dicktator_ wrote:IIRC when H2O played treaty in 2011 he rolled everyone except for Stormcoming, and even then Stormcoming was often saved by lag (they usually fought in teamgames, I remember H2O actually beating Stormcoming in an unrated 1v1).


:hmm: .. Stormcuming was very good indeed but i won more than 50% of our matchups back then. spain vs spain he got rolled too. :hmm:
but i'm not quite sure when storms prime was and if i was around then
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Re: Is the community getting better?

Post by glorious_ »

I strongly believe that StarSky, Phoenix (he came back last year for some time and was pr35 right away), iamgrunt, ourk and so on would be op nowdays aswell. It might take them sometime to get to their top level but they definatly would level with h20 for example.
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Re: Is the community getting better?

Post by stonecold316 »

edeholland the point is everyone at the time were doing mas of 10 vill per mill or plant and allowing easier breakings on walls with leaving studs in of course theres other factors to eco itself there just what stands out
no need to be a dick about it
at the end of the day it takes players to try new things and to share it around
its players like u that think these things are so insignificant yet use these very things to play yourself. also most likely one of those players that cant think of 1 creative thing to do for him self so just copies off others and claims it for there own.
atleast it was valuable to sabusa aka elchapo and co when they started out to get eco right to begin with
of course took them almost a year of hounding me about being a eco cheat but hey its minor to noobs like yourself.
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Re: Is the community getting better?

Post by Lukas_L99 »

stonecold316 wrote:edeholland the point is everyone at the time were doing mas of 10 vill per mill or plant and allowing easier breakings on walls with leaving studs in of course theres other factors to eco itself there just what stands out
no need to be a dick about it
at the end of the day it takes players to try new things and to share it around
its players like u that think these things are so insignificant yet use these very things to play yourself. also most likely one of those players that cant think of 1 creative thing to do for him self so just copies off others and claims it for there own.
atleast it was valuable to sabusa aka elchapo and co when they started out to get eco right to begin with
of course took them almost a year of hounding me about being a eco cheat but hey its minor to noobs like yourself.


Why are you being butthurt that you don't get credit for things people figured out just by using common sense?
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Re: Is the community getting better?

Post by _H2O »

Yeah, the community has gotten much better. I'm 2011 I was ahead of the treaty meta in matchups I played. I made better unit comps and didn't have to worry about culv micro. Running wasn't a thing nor was the style of walling in the same way. Even players like fran999 walling and mortar pushing is just a step ahead. (people just drained into you so easily).

Now I am behind the meta. I ask them what to do. They know nuances of booms, the right unit comps, and have developed culv micro that creates a new meta involving cannons. Even have a patch to reflect that understanding.

I actually had to try to learn a few things and focus on things I personally don't find in my style to succeed and I'm not crushing everyone for sure.
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Re: Is the community getting better?

Post by _H2O »

Worth double posting. The biggest change in the past six years is that the treaty community learned that there is more to the game than pushing. People drain slower and play the value game which was how I was able to win so easily in the past I think.
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Re: Is the community getting better?

Post by AraGun »

Treaty looks like fun now actually, since I saw Ryan playing iv started to try it out and found that it is rewarding in its own way. Also I recommend al Sup players to try it, can also help alot with understanding late game in sup, units comps, and managing 100% of your HC at its full potential. In Sup you only manage like 40% of your HC´s full potential.
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Re: Is the community getting better?

Post by gibson »

AraGun wrote:Treaty looks like fun now actually, since I saw Ryan playing iv started to try it out and found that it is rewarding in its own way. Also I recommend al Sup players to try it, can also help alot with understanding late game in sup, units comps, and managing 100% of your HC at its full potential. In Sup you only manage like 40% of your HC´s full potential.

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Re: Is the community getting better?

Post by deleted_user »

I'm maintaining tr would be more fun (personally) without artillery and maybe a limit on walls then. This is why I'm going to play nr 20 with @gibson
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Re: Is the community getting better?

Post by gibson »

We about to be runnin the nr20 community

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