Hussar vs Lancer

Germany supernapoleon
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Hussar vs Lancer

Post by supernapoleon »

Usually one would use lancers as Spain because they have 4x damage vs infinatry. But Spains hussars also have all kav cards so they arent that bad even with missionary. I've tried using them in tr40in10min with spain vs sid brits and I won. So my question here is, are hussars a viable option for spain instaed of lancers? Their damage vs kav and cannon is higher, just their damage vs infinatry is lower. What do u think?
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Great Britain InsectPoison
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Re: Hussar vs Lancer

Post by InsectPoison »

In my opinion its not about how good their hussar is , its about how much its worth to upgrade and make them since spain is already food heavy. What can a hussar do that a Lancer can't apart from higher base damage. Lancer also has more HP. Making hussar in a longer game is just not viable as it will drain you. Especially vs brits i wouldnt make hussar, they have the best Musks as their standalone main infantry excluding LB.
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Tuvalu gibson
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Re: Hussar vs Lancer

Post by gibson »

Lancers do better vs infantry and worse vs all else so it makes sense that you'd make Lancer vs an infantry heavy comp and hussar vs a more cav heavy comp......
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Re: Hussar vs Lancer

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

whenever I play spain I upgrade both. Hussar are great especially when you have monks behind them, with the lancer nerf in the patch hussar are a much more rounded unit. whereas lancer are only going to be effective vs skrims really. but spain hussars with monks will kill artillery, other cav, skirms and fair decently vs HI
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Re: Hussar vs Lancer

Post by supernapoleon »

Yeah thats exatly my point
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Re: Hussar vs Lancer

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

yeah just reiterating and adding that the lancer nerf in patch makes lancers even less viable and hussars more so.
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Re: Hussar vs Lancer

Post by charlemagen »

you make cavalry as a counter to inf which lancers are incredible at, not to vs other cav. Spain already has enough anti-cav units with rods and mayans + Humi if you're on Andes. Spain also really doesn't have the eco to use lancers or Huss for that matter to kill art unless hey are just right there. Deffinetely don't use Huss as lancers provide everything a cav unit should do but better. I wish I had time to give more examples ATM and I know this post may be written poorly but it's the best I can do right now
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Re: Hussar vs Lancer

Post by momuuu »

Given that spain often plays nats, that means spain also tends to play against nats right? Nats on andes = a shitload of enemy infantry all the time, which definitely makes a good case for lancers I suppose. Would you even upgrade hussars?
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Re: Hussar vs Lancer

Post by adderbrain5 »

the question has been asked time and time again, huss vs. lancers for spain...the only answer is : tis situational, but I would argue that culverin, skirm, rod is a better counter everything army than lancers and probably much more pop/cost effective
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Re: Hussar vs Lancer

Post by Lukas_L99 »

Tanner already said it, why would you use hussars vs cav when rods do a better job? Why would you use huss vs art when culvs do that better?`

Like 2 years ago making huss in a spain mirror was a thing. Back then people used 20% wood which means that you can only send one training card (fast cav in that case), so against the lancer spam after the start fight hussars did a decent job. Nowadays people don't send 20% wood anymore so they can have both training cards -> rods are just better.
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Re: Hussar vs Lancer

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

its not that I was saying you want to use hussar with monks to directly counter other hussar, but when you are trying to use lancers they can easily get blocked and killed by another players hussar meat shield. Both units are good and worth upgrading in my opinion for different tasks.
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Re: Hussar vs Lancer

Post by sirmusket »

Lancer cause they sound more sexy
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Re: Hussar vs Lancer

Post by Lukas_L99 »

howlingwolfpaw wrote:its not that I was saying you want to use hussar with monks to directly counter other hussar, but when you are trying to use lancers they can easily get blocked and killed by another players hussar meat shield. Both units are good and worth upgrading in my opinion for different tasks.


I don't see how hussars would be more useful at killing cav than rods, killing inf than lancers and killing art than culvs. They're okay at all of those tasks, but not as good as other units.

That's like saying "make only musk with any civ that can make them cause they're kinda decent against everything".
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Re: Hussar vs Lancer

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

rods are obviously better than hussar as they are direct counter to cav, but at hussar are more versatile to some of the units that counter cav, and can take out artillery better too. so do you just not use hussar at all?
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Tonga sdsanft
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Re: Hussar vs Lancer

Post by sdsanft »

The way I understand it is that if you're bad like me, then huss can be really good as a just all around great unit, but at a top level, they're kind of useless.
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Re: Hussar vs Lancer

Post by dicktator_ »

I'm pretty sure sid is rusty as all hell btw.

People overestimate the impact that the 0.5x VS HI nerf has on lancers and Spain in general. You never made lancers to kill HI. You made skirms to kill HI. And with 10 extra pop, Spain can afford 10 extra skirms.
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Re: Hussar vs Lancer

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

its a pretty big nerf 50% damage to units it once could trade against fairly well to now being countered by them. You could send a batch of lancers into a group of inf and know they will do some damage but now can get tripped up by a few HI. I have only played spain once on patch and it was on G plains so I was having more problems getting past lakotas and comanche but it seems the lancer is now a more focused roll to just kill skirms and nothing else like mahouts.

what other unit was nerfed so hard?
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Re: Hussar vs Lancer

Post by Gichtenlord »

howlingwolfpaw wrote:its a pretty big nerf 50% damage to units it once could trade against fairly well to now being countered by them. You could send a batch of lancers into a group of inf and know they will do some damage but now can get tripped up by a few HI. I have only played spain once on patch and it was on G plains so I was having more problems getting past lakotas and comanche but it seems the lancer is now a more focused roll to just kill skirms and nothing else like mahouts.

what other unit was nerfed so hard?
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Re: Hussar vs Lancer

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

yes i was thinking of them as a possible biggest nerf, and they do seem pretty weak now.
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Re: Hussar vs Lancer

Post by glorious_ »

regarding that most of the late games at least two player have goons (in SUP) its just noth worth it to make huss. They die to fast and have no extra atk vs inf.
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Re: Hussar vs Lancer

Post by OliverP »

Lukas_L99 wrote:Like 2 years ago making huss in a spain mirror was a thing.


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Re: Hussar vs Lancer

Post by charlemagen »

You just have no reason to make Huss as Spain. Lukas put it best by what he said about muskets. And lancers do not get ripped apart by HI now, they still get 2x vs them. Lancers now just don't destroy them completely, hi provides more of a meat shield vs them than an actual counter

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