Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

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No Flag howlingwolfpaw
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

what about having it so every player can play with nats if owned by a team member?
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

Post by Gear_Head »

Metis wrote:
Gear_Head wrote:One question: if you're going on the honor system anyways, why even do a 10 min treaty? Just for the PR/ELO ratings sake?


IMO, it's best to keep the treaty and supremacy ranks separate, unless a player is good at both. This way one can tell if that "supremacy" 1st Lt is actually a fairly decent player. Most of the 55 community doesn't play supremacy and, thus, are low-ranking in that game mode.

You do have a point about the Elo rating; however, most of the 55 community are 1st Lt to Capt and few play to rank up. There are some who still think PR is important but not many. Those who seek PR, even if they do it by "legit" means, such as ensuring they are on the team with the best players and/or civs, soon find themselves shunned by the 55 community, who mostly just play random team games.

I've notices a lot of NR 60 games lately with Sgts to 2nd Lts in them. These must have come over from 'nilla.



The last game I played just emphasized the importance of ELO rating > PR to me. I agree 100% that a separate treaty ranking system is necessary.

I also have noticed alot of nr60 games popping up. At least they're coming over to TAD finally. :)
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

Post by Vladislav »

Gichtenlord wrote:
Vladislav wrote:would like new maps for 55.


I could make a new map for nr55, but I dont really know what the average orinoco player wants. Do you guys want again something similar to a crossing, so that the map is heads up fights only, or can it be a more of an open map? What about trade routes, different natives? I would like to hear some different opinions/suggestions before I make a map, which might be disliked by the nr55 community.

In the vanilla NR60 was popular the Big Great Plains. But it is very difficult "to hold" all middle of the card in TAD, including trade ways - since many nations in the mode nr55 have many resources and will be able to delete more settlers for run attack. For example Japan or Iro. Otto. Therefore too open cards won't be popular. Orinoco has minus - the river too disturbs, coast are inconvenient for the attack. Many players play only in deaf defense.
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

Post by paddy_jai »

i can test for new patch on ori :D
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

Post by Panmaster »

Give people 1000 year lifespans and that'll make NR55 more popular.
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

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Post by Hazza54321 »

by making it less than 55mins
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

Post by tz9422 »

River laming - it's part of the game, some people prob want to keep it, but some also complain about it as a cheap tactic. Maybe make the water crossing wider so that mortars can't just destroy the first wall all the way down? Or like a slight curve away from the crossing. I don't mind either way, but I've heard complaints.
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

tz9422 wrote:River laming - it's part of the game, some people prob want to keep it, but some also complain about it as a cheap tactic. Maybe make the water crossing wider so that mortars can't just destroy the first wall all the way down? Or like a slight curve away from the crossing. I don't mind either way, but I've heard complaints.


Please this happen. Make sure that docks cannot be made! If you could also implement the old NR way - an invisible wall halfway on the map, instead of stupid treaty circles that would be so nice. Actually time it for 45 or 55 as well :)
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

Post by sc »

Metis wrote:
Gear_Head wrote:If the treaty wall on orinoco was moved to the river crossing, that would be epic.


If all players in the game were honorable, you could play in Supremacy mode, where everyone could get a shot at both nats and the forward base could be made at leisure. In fact, a few of us have been doing this -- hosting NR 10 games with the agreement that it is actually a 55. Thus far, nobody has violated the agreement.


holy shit, this changes everything. i've never seen anyone do this. brilliant.
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

nr 10 on ori is def the best way to go. on supremacy though you dont get TR ranking.
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

Post by Darwin_ »

Make it not take 2 hours
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

Post by pecelot »

It usually doesn't :!:
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

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Post by ocemilky »

I assume the point of a 55 is to be able to ensure a straight heads up battle right? A new map or two could help spice it up with different/no natives/trade route etc. Instead of rivers have cliffs, could open up the map in areas and choke it down in others. Could be interesting to play around with that.

Trade route would be interesting as then civs should be able to get most/all cards out by 55. I'm just throwing out ideas here.
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

Post by sebnan12 »

it would be awesome if placing builds over the cross worked
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

Post by Gichtenlord »

do you mean building on crossings water? Just record the game and you are able to do it.
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

Post by wardyb1 »

Disclaimer: I'm rather new to treaty and have only been mostly playing nr40 so far. However nr55 seems to just extend the game time longer with more resources and more walls. It doesn't seem to punish bad early macro as harshly as nr40 and turns the game into more of a "who can play the most op civ". To me turning it into a nr45 or 50 would be better as it still allows better fb building and some better walls but doesn't give players a free pass to wall entire map and cheese the game. Or if it was in anyway possible, somehow implementing a wall limit in the treaty fan patch would be rather interesting.
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

Post by t3rror1sta »

Reduce 15 minutes

gg
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

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Post by Gear_Head »

wardyb1 wrote:Disclaimer: I'm rather new to treaty and have only been mostly playing nr40 so far. However nr55 seems to just extend the game time longer with more resources and more walls. It doesn't seem to punish bad early macro as harshly as nr40 and turns the game into more of a "who can play the most op civ". To me turning it into a nr45 or 50 would be better as it still allows better fb building and some better walls but doesn't give players a free pass to wall entire map and cheese the game. Or if it was in anyway possible, somehow implementing a wall limit in the treaty fan patch would be rather interesting.


I feel like an open map (or even better: a slightly terrained map such as Andes) is ideal for blitzes to obtain map control and choose your fighting parameters, hence why NR 40 is best for these maps. This style emphasizes the APM spike at a crucial time that decides a significant portion of the rest of the game whilst always keeping the players on their toes to obtain and retain map control. It's very fun.

Therefore, NR 55 on any map without a major choke (mainly Orinoco) is pointless, I agree. I occasionally see someone host a nr55 on Great Plains or some other open map and I just shake my head.

You'll find that 95% of NR 55 games are on Orinoco, and in that case you'll also find that most people don't build more than 4-5 walls before you're in their forward (and only) base. Thus, the actual fighting time *usually* is around the same as on a NR 40 Andes match, but the potential for a 2hr match is certainly greater with NR 55 Ori for a number of (mostly obvious) reasons.

NR 40 definitely punishes early macro and micro errors more than NR 55, but the two game types are different enough from each other to have an argument *against* simply making the game NR 45 or NR 50 (ignoring the fact that the two styles require different types of maps altogether which I already mentioned). Some differences I've noticed between NR 55 Orinoco and NR 40 Andes:

Orinoco (usually) has more opportunities for collaborative fighting with teammates, since the battlegrounds are close in proximity to each other, and cannons are typically more important in the pure head-to-head battle as well (especially culverins, for this reason).
Civ imbalances are muted slightly (e.g. Russia and Japan are acceptable opponents on Ori, big eco civs' weaknesses have more time to be exploited before the lower eco civ runs out of resources, and Spain's push that is so lethal in Andes is less so in Ori...but never underestimate a good Spain player despite this), although France is still France. :lol:
Unit compositions also change slightly (usually tend towards less hand cavalry than on Andes).
Being able to hone in on your compositions and fighting tactics without having to worry about constantly dealing with map control issues is nice too. It allows you to spend more of your APM on actions that have a direct impact on the fight instead of longer-term (but equally important) infrastructure matters. This, of course, is a skill that can translate back to NR 40 as well (although the sheer APM spike at 40 min in a NR 40 is generally what separates the men from the boys and ultimately is the reason NR 40 players can jump in a NR 55 with less learning curve than vice versa). :smile:

Finally, the wall limit you speak of would actually harm NR 40 players more than NR 55 players. Walling a choke on Orinoco requires less actual walling than the walling required for proper map control, base protection, and battleground funnelling on Andes. Just my two-cents. :flowers:
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

Post by pecelot »

Gichtenlord wrote:do you mean building on crossings water? Just record the game and you are able to do it.

it is a bug, right?
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

Post by _NiceKING_ »

pecelot wrote:
Gichtenlord wrote:do you mean building on crossings water? Just record the game and you are able to do it.

it is a bug, right?

yup
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

Post by pecelot »

Has it been addressed in the treaty patch, if it's even possible? :hmm:
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

Post by Gichtenlord »

pecelot wrote:Has it been addressed in the treaty patch, if it's even possible? :hmm:

Just because it is a bug, it doesnt mean that it is harmful for the game.
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

Post by pecelot »

Possibly, but on the other hand you'd ideally want to fix it, of course if it was even possible in the first place :chinese:
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

Post by Gear_Head »

pecelot wrote:Possibly, but on the other hand you'd ideally want to fix it, of course if it was even possible in the first place :chinese:


The only advantage I can maybe see from it is for push oriented civs or players, and even then the change is small.

Honestly the one civ that it actually helps with any significance is Sioux, and Sioux already suck in Orinoco so I'd say no big deal if it's not easy to fix. :smile:
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Re: Ideas to make nr55 more popular on treaty patch?

Post by pecelot »

A bug is a bug, always worth fixing :!:

if possible, of course :chinese:

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