Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Should reviving explorers inside the enemy base using spyglass be considered a cheat?

Yes
19
42%
NO
26
58%
 
Total votes: 45

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Austria OliverP
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Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by OliverP »

see title.. poll to clear this question.
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Re: Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by charlemagen »

Yeah that's cheesy af
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Re: Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by OliverP »

charlemagen wrote:Yeah that's cheesy af


exactly what i am thinking.

its basically the same as the glitch
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Re: Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by Jaeger »

im guessing the explorer is a threat to vills?
last time i cryed was because i stood on Lego
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Re: Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

its also kind of hard to know if people are using that ability or the glitch
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Re: Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

ovi12 wrote:im guessing the explorer is a threat to vills?



mostly done on Ori I think you can get explorers behind walls a little bit at a time, or find an open spot and make a TC then a vil etc...

or you can use the ability that trains blowgunners to kill vils and cause distractions.
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Re: Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by OliverP »

howlingwolfpaw wrote:
ovi12 wrote:im guessing the explorer is a threat to vills?



mostly done on Ori I think you can get explorers behind walls a little bit at a time, or find an open spot and make a TC then a vil etc...

or you can use the ability that trains blowgunners to kill vils and cause distractions.



get a stable inside the enemy base on andes with instant cav.. that hurts
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Bavaria Gichtenlord
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Re: Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by Gichtenlord »

I would definitely call it a "feature". When I have a dead explorer close to my base walls, I just put walls around
r]
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Re: Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by OliverP »

Gichtenlord wrote:I would definitely call it a "feature". When I have a dead explorer close to my base walls, I just put walls around


id just let him waste 600w over and over again.. still a silly feature
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Re: Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by Cometk »

i would consider it a "feature" as well, however i'd find it very obnoxious to play against. if the explorer is dead and no actual units are nearby, he should stay dead.
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Re: Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by charlemagen »

Explorers should only get revived by other units or ransom not a global ability
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Re: Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

OliverP wrote:
Gichtenlord wrote:I would definitely call it a "feature". When I have a dead explorer close to my base walls, I just put walls around


id just let him waste 600w over and over again.. still a silly feature



i think most of the time this can be stopped, but its annoying and distracting from the battle. though on a few twitch streams I have seen this work.

port mortars along river walls, sends in explorer revives until gets him in safe zone, then builds up a little.
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Re: Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by Gear_Head »

I see it as less lethal (much easier to stop) than a sepoy or russian musk sneak. Plus, it requires a Portuguese teammate or the 2 extra explorers card (as Port) to execute. It's a feature because the criteria for explorer revival is LOS and the spyglass provides it. Alt+D is a glitch, but this is a feature (even if the devs didn't directly intend for it to be).
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Re: Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by pecelot »

howlingwolfpaw wrote:its also kind of hard to know if people are using that ability or the glitch

when someone uses the spyglass a notification appears
howlingwolfpaw wrote:or you can use the ability that trains blowgunners to kill vils and cause distractions.

on which map? :uglylol:
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Re: Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

orinoco with carib
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Re: Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by pecelot »

oh, ok, I cant actually recall getting them there :hmm:
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Re: Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

Gear_Head wrote:I see it as less lethal (much easier to stop) than a sepoy or russian musk sneak. Plus, it requires a Portuguese teammate or the 2 extra explorers card (as Port) to execute. It's a feature because the criteria for explorer revival is LOS and the spyglass provides it. Alt+D is a glitch, but this is a feature (even if the devs didn't directly intend for it to be).



yes those runs can be far more effective, but once you kill all the sepoy and stop the run the other player has to do it all over again. and if failed is a costly endeavor. with the explorer he can be back there and dead until you have forgotten about him then pop up, make his carib and continue on, you cant really stop it but for a minute and have it constantly distract.
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Tuvalu gibson
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Re: Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by gibson »

Lol Wtf...... How in the world is that cheating?
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Re: Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

i dont really think its a cheat, but an unfair exploit that could be fixed to make TR more balanced.
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Re: Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by momuuu »

Its as much a cheat as ignoring half map if the community would agree its lame and stupid.
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Re: Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by Gear_Head »

howlingwolfpaw wrote:
yes those runs can be far more effective, but once you kill all the sepoy and stop the run the other player has to do it all over again. and if failed is a costly endeavor. with the explorer he can be back there and dead until you have forgotten about him then pop up, make his carib and continue on, you cant really stop it but for a minute and have it constantly distract.



You're 100% right.
That said, an explorer can take a long time to regenerate even half health and be worth reviving with spyglass. Also, Carib aren't siege units anyways and there's only 12 of them tops.
The actual damage done without getting fully established with TC, vils, art foundry, and maybe more is minimal unless the player on defense is not very good and overcompensates for the breach in his base (thus getting pushed on the battle-front).

It's ineffective enough without other unit support that it's borderline troll. No, it doesn't cost as much as a sepoy rax or fort spam, but it almost doesn't even belong in the same category as those either as a method of pushing unless your other units are actually in their base too supporting the explorer/vills and their fb building (in which case the spyglass becomes irrelevant anyways).
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Re: Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

sure carib arent good at seige, but to kill them you got to send lots of cav to kill quick or explorer will keep remaking them, cav are high pop units, so distracts from army for a possible push. sometimes people stop noticing stuff like that, like seriously I was just in a game with a 1st lt and didnt notice my teammate taking out his entire FB! cause he was all focused on our battle.

and a sepoy run can be costly, not only in unit and building cost, but in time. if india loses an army to something like that can take a while to get back on their feet again. really only works if you can get a good peace treaty in. but if they get blocked its gonna be bad news.
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Re: Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by noissance »

Do hot air baloons also revive them? this seems cheap (as bad as alt + d)
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Re: Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by Gear_Head »

noissance wrote:Do hot air baloons also revive them? this seems cheap (as bad as alt + d)


I'd hope so since it's LOS oriented. It's definitely not as bad as alt+d. I'd argue it's on the same level as spyglass. A balloon requires an additional card be placed in your deck, therefore sacrificing something else to make it happen.

Alt+D is simply a cheat. Anybody can do it no matter what civ they are and with no loss of resources or improvement potential (HC cards, etc.)


howlingwolfpaw wrote:sure carib arent good at seige, but to kill them you got to send lots of cav to kill quick or explorer will keep remaking them, cav are high pop units, so distracts from army for a possible push. sometimes people stop noticing stuff like that, like seriously I was just in a game with a 1st lt and didnt notice my teammate taking out his entire FB! cause he was all focused on our battle.

and a sepoy run can be costly, not only in unit and building cost, but in time. if india loses an army to something like that can take a while to get back on their feet again. really only works if you can get a good peace treaty in. but if they get blocked its gonna be bad news.


The key is to simply not overreact to it. If you're sending 20 hussars every time you notice the explorer gets revived, that's way too much. Mind you, there are still many times Carib are not even part of the picture and the explorer is still snuck in (and people *still* send 15 hussars after a lone explorer!).

There's always ways to compensate for not noticing these things and thus getting surprised from behind with a full FB. Leaving 1 hussar next to a downed explorer to "stand guard" is a popular one, since you'll instantly get the notification once the explorer is revived and attacks. The cost of this is 2 pop, but the cost of them leaving their explorer down in your base for an extended period is the potential 3000HP+ tanking power and sharpshooting ability every minute or so that an explorer would normally do in battle.

All I'm saying is, if someone is half decent at keeping the enemy explorer from having an impact inside their base, then the person losing is actually the person who owns the explorer. It's not as much of an advantage as you'd think.
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Re: Poll: Treaty: reviving explorers with spyglass (inside enemy base)

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

i wall him in if i can
havent had this sucessfulyl happen to me but i have seen it used.

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