Some question about Brits

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No Flag Sherigo
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Re: Some question about Brits

Post by Sherigo »

So lets continue whit question
9) What is a good imperial time whit brits?
and when play nats how much food/wood/gold should i have at 40 min?
and how much when playing whitout nats?
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No Flag howlingwolfpaw
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Re: Some question about Brits

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

I have been playing Brits on ori recently I have been hitting imperial mostly at about the 17 min mark but have done 16:30. I think the earlier times are when I did not make sheep in age 2-3 transition. Which is ultimately better anyway.

For ORI have been trading with 100k coin at about the 38 min mark but its a lot, maybe a little much. For nats its about right though. I fought for 45 mins and still had 16k left in my last game. without nats I might start trading with 75k.

As for nr40. I think I would trade to reach 50-60k wood after trade. you'll spend like 20-30 on bases and upgrades then have a bunch left to fight with before needing to transition to factories. But I have not played brits in nr 40 much.

I really don't like to be low on wood. thats where people start to lose it not being able to build FB, and arillery. its much easier to rebound from less food with being a little more defensive than build up wood again so I value it highly. But its still a balance though as if you don't use it theres not much point to having so much.
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Re: Some question about Brits

Post by Metis »

howlingwolfpaw wrote:I think the earlier times are when I did not make sheep in age 2-3 transition."


Even with Brits and their fast eating, I'm not 100% convinced that sheep provide that much benefit. I'll have to test this to be sure but considering that you only net a maximum of 200 food from each and then lose 10% of that to decay, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to just dispense with them entirely and just use cows alone.

I'll play the next two games with and without sheep and get back to you on how my food eco fared. I might do an offline-sheep-only boom too just to see what happens. I don't think I've seen one of those (perhaps nilla players do it all the time but I don't play there).
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Re: Some question about Brits

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

even with a 10% decay (which is mitigated by having more than 1 villie per sheep/cow) you are still gonna get an extra 5400 per cycle of harvest for food, that should be 54 points of score compared to a much smaller points available if those same 4-5 vils are gathering from mills in that time. Especially in battle I find being able to harvest a cow/ sheep cycle really saves brits and allows them to fight with much over pop and still maintain eco.

I have notices a big improvement in my boom making sheep age 3. At first after going imperial with just cows I barely had enough to make vils, and upgrades, I even had to put my factories on food to make vills for a short while to get vils. After using the first cow harvest to make sheep, by the time I am imperial now I have a hue surplus to make more cows/sheep and almost cue up every vill I need .

I am curious as to how much others wood trade with though.
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Re: Some question about Brits

Post by Metis »

Well, I just did a partial boom with sheep only. Alone, they really are not worth it. However, in conjunction with cows, probably so. Once set up, it only takes about the number of setts you would have on one mill to garner three or four mills worth of food. Thanks for the hints. I know that you are a pretty good Brit player and value your advice.
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Re: Some question about Brits

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

I could see a sheep only boom not working, you need to invest 3k food in age 1 to get 9k food back (less decay) and build another pen. With cows you invest 1800 for 10k and save 200 for a pen in age 1. That is gonna really hold up your age 2 time and not net enough to buy back sheep and age to 5. So using 3 cards for that is pointless. but with the 4th card for cows adding sheep just help that much more.

you will eat your 20 cows to start aging to age 2. At that time you should have 16-20 on coin and the rest on wood or eating cows until you can upgrade placer mines (when you hit age 2), make 3 more pens and gather for 2 TCs. once you hit age 2 you should be making sheep that you will then eat right around imperial time along with another batch of cows. once you have the wood for TCs as many as coin possible while keeping some vills near TC to collect coin age ups and be close to eat herdables. ussually this will be about 30+ on coin to age to 5. I still need to make 1 vill while collecting my 2000 coin age ups to get to 5.
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Kiribati princeofcarthage
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Re: Some question about Brits

Post by princeofcarthage »

I haven't played 40 in over a year and I am not fully aware with patch changes so i would stick with RE, you should use longbows only in those matchups where brit really lacks a skirm type unit for ex. Dutch port, aztec.

The other time is when you are really low on eco and want to camp hard.

Other than that its a risky gamble and might prove self detrimental in some matchups like maybe brit mirror or brit ger or brit spain. You are better off with just cherokee in these mu.

It might also be ok to mix a few on andes in nats, as that place is usually cramped and you have nat as anticav
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Re: Some question about Brits

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

It really depends on how your opponent plays but LB are great. remember their ROF is 1.5 and skirms its 3. So a skrim does a base damage of 33-38 (45chuknuknu, and 52 for full unction skirm) but since it fires 2x as fast does 68 base damage. or, 136 damage to dragoons vs a skrim doing about 66- 78. They are also much better at killing other skirms for that reason. And they have much better range which still makes up for their slightly less damage to heavy inf (89 compared to 99+). But if your enemy is doing dopp uhlan, or rod/ lancer then they are not as effective but even some make for a nice target to use as a distraction to lure your enemy into making risky trades.

If you use them right and protect them, bring them back in tricky situations so that cav enter musket ranks. All you really need to do is keep spamming muskets and hussar and dragoons and your LB stay alive well. then you can add cannon to that and become really strong. They really help you save eco is 30% of your army is not dying that much.

I use them vs all civs in various proportions depending on army make up. except maybe France which I just wont play in TR anyway.
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Re: Some question about Brits

Post by Metis »

Longbows are an amazing unit and brits have the food and wood economy to field them forever, or at least for several hours. In a long game today I was facing a higher ranked Dutch as Brits. The Dutch player had a better kill ratio but in the end the Brit eco won out. Even though I deleted 20 setts to make the armies somewhat equal, I had enough eco to feed my French ally (a medium-ranked individual with a tendency to spam units) and still drain the fed Dutch to the point that the other team was out of eco as well. I mostly made Longbow-Huss-Musk in about even proportions. To show how long the game was, I also sent 122 rockets as shipments.
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Re: Some question about Brits

Post by Metis »

Just completed an online boom about as good as I could manage it. No eco nat (Carib). I made sheep at the Age II-III transition with the food garnered from the fat cows. From III, I went right to IV but then mismanaged gold distribution a bit, so my Age V wasn't until 17 min. I ended up with 2518 score at 40 with 56 k food, 85 k wood and 17 k gold (everything upgraded).

I have a tendency to leave facts on wood in order to periodically upgrade things. I know they would be better put on coin for that 1.25x trade. I might be able to squeak a few more points and resources in by doing this. With Zapotec, I think I should be able to hit around 2700 at 40 if I'm careful.
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Re: Some question about Brits

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

sounds like a good boom . I dont know that its possible to go to age 5 without some stall to collect 2000 in crates. I think around 17 mins is pretty standard. was your nr40 boom to play a nr 40 game? when did you trade?
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Re: Some question about Brits

Post by Metis »

howlingwolfpaw wrote:when did you trade?


I trade a bit before 40, usually when gold reaches 75 k (which gives about 100 k after the trade and 85 k after upgrades). Of course, in a team game it all depends on what the team needs. I've traded as late as 50 when an Iroquois or Chinese ally needed lots of wood. Usually with a team trade I'll just do my own boom then trade wood for whatever they want to give me later. Optimally it would be great to coordinate the trades but I find that this can rarely be done when teams are random.
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Re: Some question about Brits

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

iros and china partners really compliment brits well since they also get team faster livestock fattening. If I have an iros partner I just get extra coin myself and do a direct trade later for his coin from fur trade and my wood trade.

I think both are a little too OP for nr 55 though. At least Iros takes skills to be OP with but china is just lame.

India is also an interesting civ to trade with. because not only can you give them some extra wood that they need, but pre 40 just herd and eat sheep, and use all the food you get from them and maybe 1 batch of cows to train hundreds of cows. Give them to india for a massive XP boom. They wont fatten with india but then after 40 send them all back to brits. They will fatten slowly but still enough to eat pre 55. your score will look low, people will think you did not boom well, but you will have SOOOOO much more food in cows since you will basically have invested that original 56k of food into cows, which if u follow the math, 80 per head is around 700 cows, or 350,000 of food!! (some inefficiency that wont allow that much as I have not done it but seen a brit player do it with me as india) but theoretically its possible) Honestly this could probably be done with any partner, advantage being that they can fatten your cows for you. It might even be a little lame OP well maybe more than a little!
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Kiribati princeofcarthage
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Re: Some question about Brits

Post by princeofcarthage »

I am open for a 1v1 brit mirror, I won't make a single lb
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Re: Some question about Brits

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

add me and ask me sometime. It would be an interesting thing. but I suspect since I would not have to make any hussar in that match (except maybe to make a quick meat shield from yours), it would come down to a artillery war more than anything.
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Re: Some question about Brits

Post by princeofcarthage »

Alright
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