Treaty on Water?

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No Flag Jaeger
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Treaty on Water?

Post by Jaeger »

I'd be really curious to see how a treaty games would go on:

1) Heavy water map (Amazonia)
2) Semi water map (Saguenay, monitors still in range of the whole enemy base)
3) Map where monitors not in range of most enemy base (idk if this exists)

I'm just interested how they would play out. For example on Carribean, would both civs try to invade each other's main islands? Or would the game be focused on controlling the smaller islands? You get the point.

I know that @Cometk was doing some testing for NR20 on this, has he or anyone else had some experience they would like to share?
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Re: Treaty on Water?

Post by Lukas_L99 »

Probably too much lag, you'd lose your factories/wonders at 40 and the imbalance would probably be even worse than on land.
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Re: Treaty on Water?

Post by sdsanft »

I think if monitors were removed (or atleast their ability) NR would much more fun on water. Lag and ship build limit would still sick though.
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Re: Treaty on Water?

Post by pecelot »

viewtopic.php?f=176&t=7459&start=25

There are a couple of ways to prevent factory-sniping. First off, it requires LOS to shoot them, so we could expand the half-map rule to be obeyed even before the 40th minute. Secondly, for instance, we could nerf monitors' long-range attack, just like it was done in EP, or increase factories' HP count so that they're not burned after 3 straight monitor shots. It would be a bit ridiculous, so I think the second option is the best.
Before anyone mentions possible balance issues, I'll repeat what I said already somewhere in a similar topic: we can always play mirrors at least. But actually looking at either Brits, Ports or for example Spain they both have their pros and cons. The former obviously have Offshore Support, but lack Navigation School and Coastal Defences, which the second one in a row possess. The latter, on the other hand, has some good upgrades and OP galeons — they don't always come in to play, but in such circumstances they would serve as mobile barracks and stables, which certainly makes them more crucial.
In terms of lag, if you play with someone with a decent connection and not a high number of other participants (ergo 1v1s, possibly 2v2s), the lag shouldn't be that much more annoying than it is in regular „rush" games on water maps IMO. Of course there will be tons of units, but that's also the case sometimes in supremacy without treaty. :smile:
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Re: Treaty on Water?

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Post by Cometk »

i hosted nr20 on carolina for literally a month and never once got a game out of it

i wish i could say something bud but i can't
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Re: Treaty on Water?

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it'd be the best to just schedule such games with friends
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Re: Treaty on Water?

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pecelot wrote:it'd be the best to just schedule such games with friends

i tried that too, nothing lol
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Re: Treaty on Water?

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Cometk wrote:
pecelot wrote:it'd be the best to just schedule such games with friends

i tried that too, nothing lol

no friends confirmed
r]
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Re: Treaty on Water?

Post by pecelot »

I'd be up for that one day, given enough free time and technical possibilities. I know @EAGLEMUT likes irregular stuff, too! :flowers:
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Re: Treaty on Water?

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pecelot wrote:I'd be up for that one day, given enough free time and technical possibilities. I know @EAGLEMUT likes irregular stuff, too! :flowers:

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Re: Treaty on Water?

Post by gibson »

Great idea. Take the laggiest, lamest, and most boring part of sup and add it to tr, which is already laggy and boring for most
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Re: Treaty on Water?

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Post by benj89 »

gibson wrote:Great idea. Take the laggiest, lamest, and most boring part of sup and add it to tr, which is already laggy and boring for most

srsly ask a friend to play some aggro water games on NE/Sagu/GL, it's fun and pretty intense since you have to water/land press at the same time to win - should be lag free too. Tower placement, ws ups, card order, decision making everything is changed from the basic land BOs and that's pretty cool. Worse scenario it will improve your multitasking
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Re: Treaty on Water?

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gibson wrote:Great idea. Take the laggiest, lamest, and most boring part of sup and add it to tr, which is already laggy and boring for most

That's what makes it awesome!!!
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Re: Treaty on Water?

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gibson wrote:Great idea. Take the laggiest, lamest, and most boring part of sup and add it to tr, which is already laggy and boring for most

1v1 me BO21 Fre mirrors only on Arkansas
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Re: Treaty on Water?

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benj89 wrote:
gibson wrote:Great idea. Take the laggiest, lamest, and most boring part of sup and add it to tr, which is already laggy and boring for most

srsly ask a friend to play some aggro water games on NE/Sagu/GL, it's fun and pretty intense since you have to water/land press at the same time to win - should be lag free too. Tower placement, ws ups, card order, decision making everything is changed from the basic land BOs and that's pretty cool. Worse scenario it will improve your multitasking
I'd castrate myself then do that. Sounds like hell
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Re: Treaty on Water?

Post by benj89 »

gibson wrote:
benj89 wrote:
gibson wrote:Great idea. Take the laggiest, lamest, and most boring part of sup and add it to tr, which is already laggy and boring for most

srsly ask a friend to play some aggro water games on NE/Sagu/GL, it's fun and pretty intense since you have to water/land press at the same time to win - should be lag free too. Tower placement, ws ups, card order, decision making everything is changed from the basic land BOs and that's pretty cool. Worse scenario it will improve your multitasking
I'd castrate myself then do that. Sounds like hell

This in a 2v2 with mates --> most fun games I played in aoe, but to each his own I suppose
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Re: Treaty on Water?

Post by dicktator_ »

3v3 sea battles in supremacy IMO can actually be kind of fun when teaming with friends and playing guys that don't lag too much. The issue for treaty (and supremacy also but not as much since a land boom or early push can beat sea) is the imbalance obviously, Aztec is unbeatable on sea, civs without offshore support or schooners cannot possibly compete with civs that do have it, etc. It also makes games more prone to lag especially in treaty.
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Re: Treaty on Water?

Post by Jaeger »

dicktator_ wrote:3v3 sea battles in supremacy IMO can actually be kind of fun when teaming with friends and playing guys that don't lag too much. The issue for treaty (and supremacy also but not as much since a land boom or early push can beat sea) is the imbalance obviously, Aztec is unbeatable on sea, civs without offshore support or schooners cannot possibly compete with civs that do have it, etc. It also makes games more prone to lag especially in treaty.

You would send schooners in treaty to take up all the whales first?
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Re: Treaty on Water?

Post by edeholland »

ovi12 wrote:You would send schooners in treaty to take up all the whales first?


Yes, always
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Re: Treaty on Water?

Post by Panmaster »

I hosted a series of Amazonia 3v3 battles years ago. Some treaty nr40 and some of the most fun games ever played.

Britain is unbeatable. All the warship :ship: upgrades, livestock economy and south sea bubble :wood: just wrecks all the other civs.
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I don't recommend playing no rules on water maps. Yellow river no rules means factories are killed instantly at 40:01 and Britain is unbeatable again in 1v1. They win the warship fight and then blast any land armies to bits.
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Re: Treaty on Water?

Post by P i k i l i c »

Yes in treaty Brits have enough time to send all their cards while its very rare in sup
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Re: Treaty on Water?

Post by pecelot »

dicktator_ wrote:3v3 sea battles in supremacy IMO can actually be kind of fun when teaming with friends and playing guys that don't lag too much. The issue for treaty (and supremacy also but not as much since a land boom or early push can beat sea) is the imbalance obviously, Aztec is unbeatable on sea, civs without offshore support or schooners cannot possibly compete with civs that do have it, etc. It also makes games more prone to lag especially in treaty.

I'll repeat myself: you can always play mirrors and exclude the most OP civs, like the Aztecs. I wouldn't say in such games then Brits would be at the top alone, despite having great naval upgrades and Offshore Support. Actually, fights may get clumsy when 20+ ships of one player enter the battlefield, so there's not much room left for microing. On the other hand, Ports have Navigation School and Coastal Defences, which Brits lack. In the end, it may not be that one-sided as it seems, I'd predict.

edeholland wrote:
ovi12 wrote:You would send schooners in treaty to take up all the whales first?


Yes, always

I'd assume a presence of a half-map rule :!:
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Re: Treaty on Water?

Post by Lukas_L99 »

Very good point with the hm rule actually, I don't know how whales are spawning but i can't imagine that there would be an even amount on each side, so that's imba aswell.
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Re: Treaty on Water?

Post by Jaeger »

Lukas_L99 wrote:Very good point with the hm rule actually, I don't know how whales are spawning but i can't imagine that there would be an even amount on each side, so that's imba aswell.

Maps can probably be changed tho
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Re: Treaty on Water?

Post by pecelot »

Exactly, Amazonia for instance is too random in terms of TPs distribution, Caribbean would have to be fixed, too.

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