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New Zealand ocemilky
Skirmisher
Posts: 151
ESO: Milky__

11 Dec 2016, 07:45

howlingwolfpaw wrote: unless they kite them back


No they will just let urumi get into melee range...

You don't kite directly backwards. You just kite around and around in circles. Goons are faster than urumi and will eat them up. You won't have enough gurkha to deal with them since you've invested heavily into urumi.

Another thing I've come to notice is how often you compare late game ffa to tr and use that as the basis of your points. No wonder what we're saying isn't getting through..
sergyou wrote:i won't even bother reply to ur posts anymore and id like u to the same and not quote me


howlingwolfpaw wrote:cognitive dissonance is what people suffer from when refusing to look at 9/11 truth.
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No Flag howlingwolfpaw
Howdah
Posts: 1811

11 Dec 2016, 07:47

i play india in TR as well. in TR though your not going to be kiting around in circles like that. people barely do it all, not like in SUP
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Canada forgrin
Howdah
Posts: 1530
ESO: Forgrin

11 Dec 2016, 07:47

Someone should tell howling that FFA is not NR40. I don't think he really got that point yet.
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No Flag howlingwolfpaw
Howdah
Posts: 1811

11 Dec 2016, 07:51

oh is it not? and all this time.... thanks for clearing that up forgin. you add a lot to this conversation.
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Canada forgrin
Howdah
Posts: 1530
ESO: Forgrin

11 Dec 2016, 07:57

howlingwolfpaw wrote:oh is it not? and all this time.... thanks for clearing that up forgin. you add a lot to this conversation.

Kinda superior of you to suppose that you add any more to the conversation when all you've done is repeat the same argument (that's been repeatedly refuted) over and over again, getting increasingly angry at pro treaty players who know the game better than you do.
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"WTF WHERE ARE MY 10 FALCS" - AraGun_OP
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No Flag howlingwolfpaw
Howdah
Posts: 1811

11 Dec 2016, 08:04

forgrin wrote:
howlingwolfpaw wrote:oh is it not? and all this time.... thanks for clearing that up forgin. you add a lot to this conversation.

Kinda superior of you to suppose that you add any more to the conversation when all you've done is repeat the same argument (that's been repeatedly refuted) over and over again, getting increasingly angry at pro treaty players who know the game better than you do.


who is trying to sound superior now? I have a good knowledge of the game, people just have higher APM and wall spam me to death.

no I am not condescending to anyone. I simply state from experience. No one is offering up counter points on how to improve india. I have to repeat stuff so I am clear and communicating what I want to he heard. I offer up a lot for this topic and the run around goes both ways.
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Bavaria Gichtenlord
Howdah
Donator 03
Posts: 1244

11 Dec 2016, 08:49

howlingwolfpaw wrote:
forgrin wrote:
howlingwolfpaw wrote:oh is it not? and all this time.... thanks for clearing that up forgin. you add a lot to this conversation.

Kinda superior of you to suppose that you add any more to the conversation when all you've done is repeat the same argument (that's been repeatedly refuted) over and over again, getting increasingly angry at pro treaty players who know the game better than you do.


who is trying to sound superior now? I have a good knowledge of the game, people just have higher APM and wall spam me to death.



haha.
r]
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No Flag howlingwolfpaw
Howdah
Posts: 1811

11 Dec 2016, 08:58

[/quote]

haha.[/quote]


haha haaa
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Sweden martinspjuth
Skirmisher
Posts: 171
ESO: martinspjuth

11 Dec 2016, 12:19

howlingwolfpaw wrote:thats neat about urumi, i understand now how they are more powerful to HI.
It could have been a good idea to make sure you understand how the unit work before going on a crusade for them :uglylol:

as to the other part, why would you send urumi into a mass of skirms? now we just get into hypothetical battles that make no sense.
Sending urumi at the skirms is the only way you can use them vs dutch, because to reach the Ruyters you have to get past the skirms first.

cause if I have 9 urumi to protect my 5 mahouts with them, then the skirms get rekt.
No, the skirms won't get rekt any more than any other time just because you have urumi with them. The Mahouts will get shoot from range by Ruyters, the Urumi won't be able to deal any damage to the Ruyters before getting killed by the skirms.

stats for stats urumi in even numbers test very well vs skirms. skirms do about 36 dmg per 3 sec, or 18 damage ever 1.5 in melee. urumi would do 37 every 1 sec in a 1 area. they both resist each other. and urumi have 2x hp.
so even if you did it 32 gurka, 9 urumi, vs 50 skirms, the indian army should win because the urumi will tank so much damage and deal it out while the gurka get their shots off as well.
That's the thing! there won't be even numbers vs dutch, because while inda have a military pop of 100 (+ 20 tigers) with a pretty big part of it in training, dutch has a 135 pop strong army which also train faster.
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Portugal sergyou
Lancer
Posts: 517

11 Dec 2016, 12:47

Why are you even responding to him ... the guy is clueless he has the game knowledge of maki and acolyte ... let him talk .
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United States of America Cometk
ESOC Community Team
Posts: 1115
ESO: black_thought

11 Dec 2016, 16:48

@howlingwolfpaw
This is my first time responding to this discussion but as a member of the Treaty Patch Team I'd like to give you a definitive answer as to why we will not be implementing a change to urumis in the near future. We have several design principles, but in regards to the change to urumis I'd like to highlight this one, core to my personal philosophy:
What are a civilization's favourable matchups?
a, b, c

What are civilizations's unfavourable matchups?
x, y, z

What will this particular change do?

Will it make the civilization win its x, y, and z matchups more often while the a, b, and c matchups remain (close to) unchanged? If so, then there is reason to implement the change
Will it make the civilization win its a, b, and c matchups harder while the x, y, and z matchups remain unchanged? If so, then there is no reason to implement the change

While a change to urumis might be interesting, the patch team agrees that it would not be conducive to good balance. As Gichtenlord has already established, a change to urumis would strengthen the civilization in its favourable matchups but would not help it in its struggle matchups. This would lead to India becoming more polarized as a civilization ie. the opposite of balance. For this reason we will not be giving a buff to urumis in the next patch iteration. I hope this clarifies things.
Image
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No Flag howlingwolfpaw
Howdah
Posts: 1811

11 Dec 2016, 20:12

I agree balance is tricky, but what else can be done that would help india but also then as a result make those other matchups better?

So far I am not convinced (with the limited details) that reworking the consulate system with more available unique units from other civs is.

We ll I guess we will see.
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No Flag charlemagen
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12 Dec 2016, 02:32

howlingwolfpaw wrote:I agree balance is tricky, but what else can be done that would help india but also then as a result make those other matchups better?

So far I am not convinced (with the limited details) that reworking the consulate system with more available unique units from other civs is.

We ll I guess we will see.

We have confirmed nor denied that. As of right now it's just an, 'idea'.
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No Flag howlingwolfpaw
Howdah
Posts: 1811

12 Dec 2016, 03:30

well i am glad to hear it. I think the changes should be small to start, like cometk posted on others, change cost to 1000 for just 3 cannons would be a better start.

and note neither confirming or denying changes does not nothing when the idea is the only one being talked about. And some key questions remain about possibly changing or adding to nation bonuses would effect the civ. and wether or not it would still cost 100 export to quickly change alliance. Those I hope you will consider in your talks with your group.
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India The Lost Elixir
Crossbow
Posts: 10

13 Feb 2017, 12:00

While the guide was elaborate and good, there were few discrepancies, particularly in cards you chose.

1) Trickle cards in treaty?? They are useless, unless you're playing with India in wood scanty region(which you shouldn't do in the first place) or you're going to make game longer(you've to finish game as soon as possible(max 1hr 15 min)). 1300 wood card(infinite) is more than enough with the XP you're going to get with cows and kills.

2) What about urumi and mansabdar urumi card??? Urumis are best in late games. They decimate Ashigarus and Aztecs quite easily. War elephant card is waste, mahout is hell lot better. Urumis are lot better than chakrams.

3) Where is diplomatic intrigue card??? You need it to easily change the relations. Relations become lot cheaper too like 30 export instead of 100. You need extended fortifications card too...without it you can build only 5 castles.

4) Fur trade is optional. At first I used to depend on furtrade too, now I can boom okay without furtrade.

5) Rather than trickle cards, add in resource gathering cards.



Your first army is your wish. You can max out with mahouts and speoys and send Britsh 16 ranger+falconet shipment from consulate. There are so many options.

Mahouts will steamroll any infantry. If pathing is the problem, then set all Elephants Obstruction radius 0.79X and 0.79Z (instead of 0.49 X and 0.99 Z) in protoy.xml file.

protoy.xml file consists of all data regarding your units. By default obstruction radius is set to 0.49 X and 0.99 Z for elephants. That's why you have pathing issues. I tried obstruction radius of cavalry(0.79X and 0.79Z).It works okay. Murdilator implemented the same thing in his patch too.

The thing with mahouts or garrochistas or dogsoldiers is [b]bonus against infantry is not only against ranged infantry like skirmishers, but all kinds of infantry. So a mahout deals 2x * 0.5x =1x damage(no penalty or no bonus) vs heavy infantry like musketeer.[/b] Besides they have hell lot of hp. So they can be easily microed. Kill them, comeback and heal. Voila!! You are as good as new!! The only real threats to them are erks or skull knights.

UPDATE : I removed image file because, it is the deck of India in N30 patch not original game.
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Germany Lukas_L99
Lancer
Posts: 738
ESO: Lukas_L99
Location: Frankfurt

13 Feb 2017, 12:19

The Lost Elixir wrote:While the guide was elaborate and good, there were few discrepancies, particularly in cards you chose.

1) Trickle cards in treaty?? They are useless, unless you're playing with India in wood scanty region(which you shouldn't do in the first place) or you're going to make game longer(you've to finish game as soon as possible(max 1hr 15 min)). 1300 wood card(infinite) is more than enough with the XP you're going to get with cows and kills.

2) Favorable Karma, isn't that good. You're going to get 60% BASE HP and DAMAGE, which is may be +4 or +5 attack and +300 HP?? Nah! Keep the space for better cards. Besides white tigers have good hand attack not pet tigers.

3) Where the hell is +30% camel attack card??? What about urumi and mansabdar urumi card??? Urumis are best in late games. They decimate Ashigarus and Aztecs quite easily. War elephant card is waste, mahout is hell lot better. Urumis are lot better than chakrams.

4) Where is diplomatic intrigue card??? You need it to easily change the relations. You need extended fortifications card too...without it you can build only 5 castles.

5) Fur trade is optional. Usually you don't need furtrade at all, if played correctly.



Your first army is your wish. You can max out with mahouts and speoys and send Britsh 16 ranger+falconet shipment from consulate. There are so many options.

Mahouts will steamroll any infantry. If pathing is the problem, then set all Elephants X Obstruction radius to 0.79, Z Obstruction Radius to 0.79 (instead of 0.49 X and 0.99 Z) in protoy.xml file.

The thing with mahouts or garrochistas or dogsoldiers is bonus against infantry is not only against ranged infantry like skirmishers, but all kinds of infantry. So a mahout deals 2x * 0.5x =1x damage(no penalty or no bonus) vs heavy infantry like musketeer. Besides they have hell lot of hp. So they can be easily microed. The only real threats to them are erks or skull knights.


I don't even know if you're trolling or not, but I'm just assuming you aren't.

1.) Trickle cards help you to boom much better in the early stages of the game, try one boom with trickle cards and one without, you'll notice the difference and also over time they produce a decent amount of wood without needing population.

2.) You're sending that card only to enable 10 pet tigers. Those have less HP but more attack than white tigers, but obviously you should always make both tigers since they don't even cost pop but have decent stats.

3.) Nobody uses camels in treaty, their train times are way too slow.

4.) Waste of a shipment, diplomatic intrigue is like a res shipment, and a shitty one too. Extended fortifications is optional, but usually you have more important cards to send.

5.) No, fur trade is not optional at all, india gathers food so so so much faster than coin, you HAVE to send it or your score will be much lower and India would lose to even more civs than they already do on RE.


Your deck is just horrible for NR40 (what this guide is about). Why do you have that wonder card in age 1? Why would you ever send a castle which is basically 350 resources only in a treaty game? Why would you ever send spice trade when your hunts will eventually run out and this card has an effect for maybe 20 minutes? What is the 3rd card in age 3, I've never seen that for india lol and why would you ever send the urumi shipment that can only be sent ONCE in a treaty game that usually lasts over an hour??

You ALWAYS want to send cards with a long-term effect in treaty, everything else is a waste basically.

Oh and you're overrating mahouts too, they're just average cav.
Germany supernapoleon
Dragoon
Posts: 412
ESO: Supernapoleon
Location: Munich

13 Feb 2017, 12:20

The Lost Elixir wrote:While the guide was elaborate and good, there were few discrepancies, particularly in cards you chose.

1) Trickle cards in treaty?? They are useless, unless you're playing with India in wood scanty region(which you shouldn't do in the first place) or you're going to make game longer(you've to finish game as soon as possible(max 1hr 15 min)). 1300 wood card(infinite) is more than enough with the XP you're going to get with cows and kills.

2) Favorable Karma, isn't that good. You're going to get 60% BASE HP and DAMAGE, which is may be +4 or +5 attack and +300 HP?? Nah! Keep the space for better cards. Besides white tigers have good hand attack not pet tigers.

3) Where the hell is +30% camel attack card??? What about urumi and mansabdar urumi card??? Urumis are best in late games. They decimate Ashigarus and Aztecs quite easily. War elephant card is waste, mahout is hell lot better. Urumis are lot better than chakrams.

4) Where is diplomatic intrigue card??? You need it to easily change the relations. You need extended fortifications card too...without it you can build only 5 castles.

5) Fur trade is optional. Usually you don't need furtrade at all, if played correctly.



Your first army is your wish. You can max out with mahouts and speoys and send Britsh 16 ranger+falconet shipment from consulate. There are so many options.

Mahouts will steamroll any infantry. If pathing is the problem, then set all Elephants X Obstruction radius to 0.79, Z Obstruction Radius to 0.79 (instead of 0.49 X and 0.99 Z) in protoy.xml file.

The thing with mahouts or garrochistas or dogsoldiers is bonus against infantry is not only against ranged infantry like skirmishers, but all kinds of infantry. So a mahout deals 2x * 0.5x =1x damage(no penalty or no bonus) vs heavy infantry like musketeer. Besides they have hell lot of hp. So they can be easily microed. The only real threats to them are erks or skull knights.

Not sure if this is meant ironic, if not i disaggree 100%
"I'M SOOOOOO GOOD AT THE GAME"
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Bavaria Gichtenlord
Howdah
Donator 03
Posts: 1244

13 Feb 2017, 12:47

The Lost Elixir wrote:Mahouts will steamroll any infantry. If pathing is the problem, then set all Elephants X Obstruction radius to 0.79, Z Obstruction Radius to 0.79 (instead of 0.49 X and 0.99 Z) in protoy.xml file.


watt :uglylol:
r]
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Canada _NiceKING_
ESOC Dev Team
Donator 01
Posts: 1775
ESO: _NiceKING_

13 Feb 2017, 16:32

The Lost Elixir wrote:Image

Lukas_L99 wrote:What is the 3rd card in age 3, I've never seen that for india lol


You've never seen that card cuz India does not have it, this guy must've modifed the files.
I think he plays mostly offline
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No Flag howlingwolfpaw
Howdah
Posts: 1811

13 Feb 2017, 22:24

The Lost Elixir wrote:While the guide was elaborate and good, there were few discrepancies, particularly in cards you chose.

1) Trickle cards in treaty?? They are useless, unless you're playing with India in wood scanty region(which you shouldn't do in the first place) or you're going to make game longer(you've to finish game as soon as possible(max 1hr 15 min)). 1300 wood card(infinite) is more than enough with the XP you're going to get with cows and kills.

2) Favorable Karma, isn't that good. You're going to get 60% BASE HP and DAMAGE, which is may be +4 or +5 attack and +300 HP?? Nah! Keep the space for better cards. Besides white tigers have good hand attack not pet tigers.

3) Where the hell is +30% camel attack card??? What about urumi and mansabdar urumi card??? Urumis are best in late games. They decimate Ashigarus and Aztecs quite easily. War elephant card is waste, mahout is hell lot better. Urumis are lot better than chakrams.

4) Where is diplomatic intrigue card??? You need it to easily change the relations. You need extended fortifications card too...without it you can build only 5 castles.

5) Fur trade is optional. Usually you don't need furtrade at all, if played correctly.



Your first army is your wish. You can max out with mahouts and speoys and send Britsh 16 ranger+falconet shipment from consulate. There are so many options.

Mahouts will steamroll any infantry. If pathing is the problem, then set all Elephants X Obstruction radius to 0.79, Z Obstruction Radius to 0.79 (instead of 0.49 X and 0.99 Z) in protoy.xml file.

The thing with mahouts or garrochistas or dogsoldiers is bonus against infantry is not only against ranged infantry like skirmishers, but all kinds of infantry. So a mahout deals 2x * 0.5x =1x damage(no penalty or no bonus) vs heavy infantry like musketeer. Besides they have hell lot of hp. So they can be easily microed. The only real threats to them are erks or skull knights.


On RE Tigers are one of the best units. only dopples and gends win in equal pop numbers (no kiting)

I agree urumi are awesome but the mansabar card a waste.

I have tried with the 1 fort card that boost HP, but its not worth it. extended fortifications is enough.

mahouts still lose pretty bad to HI since they are 6 pop. But kill skirms faster than cannon do.

for the rest of it pretty much what everyone else said, trickles are good, its going to give you more than 6k wood by TR ends. which means you can buy buildigns and vilies easier without chopping.

For export its better to use the card that cheapens the cost of techs and armies. you will get more that way, you only need to change relations once for each.

the wonder HP card is not that great either, chances are if your going to lose a wonder its gonna go down no matter what.

be careful with gorshaks it only works if you upgrade the tech at the field before sending the card
Norway NoName
Crossbow
Posts: 23
ESO: InsertESOUserName

14 Feb 2017, 09:46

_NiceKING_ wrote:
The Lost Elixir wrote:Image

Lukas_L99 wrote:What is the 3rd card in age 3, I've never seen that for india lol


You've never seen that card cuz India does not have it, this guy must've modifed the files.
I think he plays mostly offline

He don't play on ESO at all, he obv playing on gameranger (source: Comment on Sioux Treaty Guide: viewtopic.php?f=176&t=8941#p212564).

Apparently GameRanger = ESO
spoiler
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Germany Lukas_L99
Lancer
Posts: 738
ESO: Lukas_L99
Location: Frankfurt

14 Feb 2017, 09:49

NoName wrote:
_NiceKING_ wrote:
You've never seen that card cuz India does not have it, this guy must've modifed the files.
I think he plays mostly offline

He don't play on ESO at all, he obv playing on gameranger (source: Comment on Sioux Treaty Guide: viewtopic.php?f=176&t=8941#p212564).

Apparently GameRanger = ESO
spoiler


Who said he's playing on ESO or that ESO=GR?
Norway NoName
Crossbow
Posts: 23
ESO: InsertESOUserName

14 Feb 2017, 09:57

Lukas_L99 wrote:
NoName wrote:
_NiceKING_ wrote:
You've never seen that card cuz India does not have it, this guy must've modifed the files.
I think he plays mostly offline

He don't play on ESO at all, he obv playing on gameranger (source: Comment on Sioux Treaty Guide: viewtopic.php?f=176&t=8941#p212564).

Apparently GameRanger = ESO
spoiler


Who said he's playing on ESO or that ESO=GR?

Well not said anywhere but based that comment on he is used to GameRanger and eso-community is used to ESO. For the 2nd part ESO=GR I thought the content inside spoiler was enough "/s", to understand it was not a serious comment.
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Germany Lukas_L99
Lancer
Posts: 738
ESO: Lukas_L99
Location: Frankfurt

14 Feb 2017, 10:10

NoName wrote:Well not said anywhere but based that comment on he is used to GameRanger and eso-community is used to ESO. For the 2nd part ESO=GR I thought the content inside spoiler was enough "/s", to understand it was not a serious comment.


How does that have any relevance to this thread or the context? I'm kinda confused
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Canada _NiceKING_
ESOC Dev Team
Donator 01
Posts: 1775
ESO: _NiceKING_

14 Feb 2017, 17:35

I don't think he even plays GR :grin:

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