Poll: would you like to see the urumi in the next patch?

[Gichtenlord]

I wonder if you even know what it means?
it is the refusal to accept reality of facts because it is too painful to accept the truth.

Yes and you sufffer from it right now.

[howlingwolfpaw]

i play india 98% of time. i know how good urumi are.

[Gichtenlord]

Yeah, vs the level you play I could also pull off to play with camels. Doesnt mean that camels are a good unit.

[howlingwolfpaw]

thats pretty arrogant. i play vs captains and 1st lts and higher all the time.

[Gichtenlord]

There is simply no reason to discuss with you anymore.

[howlingwolfpaw]

when you actually can bring something positive to say, some genuine suggestions then we will have more to talk about. otherwise you dont seem to understand the key role urumi plays.

[Gichtenlord]

I tried to patiently point out before why urumis wont be as good as you think, but you deny anything and just repeat your own arguments over and over again. This could go into infinity.

[howlingwolfpaw]

i use them, i play them in TR as well. Recently I have been playing brits in TR, but a year ago was playing india alone in TR and got to high captain/ low major rank using urumi.

[Gichtenlord]

i use them, i play them in TR as well. Recently I have been playing brits in TR, but a year ago was playing india alone in TR and got to high captain/ low major rank using urumi.

When I check your elo stats, you are mostly playing vs 1lt and below and against anyone with a small portion of skill you already lost. Urumis can be good vs players which have no idea what they are doing, but it's not good in higher levels.

[howlingwolfpaw]

recently I played a 2v2 and fought a captain with brits. I only sent urumi once because my iro partner needed my crates but I won vs him. and brits are a hard match for india. If someone is consistently beating 1st lts then they are above 1st lt. If I win some lose some to captains thats about where im at. I also play an underdog low tier civ. Really my weakness is that I use very few hotkeys. just for explorer, TC and mansabar.

and you can design options within the patch that can be good for all levels, unless you are just making this for the major plus crowd.

[Gichtenlord]

You cant balance a game for lower levels, because that's not possible. They have flaws in their mechanics and lack of experience to play the match ups correctly. How do you want to balance around that?

[howlingwolfpaw]

You cant really balance around any skill level. Dictator is the best and wins vs civ match ups that normally he shouldn't but wins with high APM. you have to look at balancing out of the context of skill, and in civ strengths and weaknesses gauged upon what it has to compete against.

Main problem with india is it cant deal with higher pop armies due to its train time. and lack of cannon to take out masses of infantry. a solution to that are urumi, that work with mahouts for a strong melee civ. now if you dont like that, then please offer up a counter solution...

[Gichtenlord]

Already did, but you are in super tunnelvision

[howlingwolfpaw]

are you the one that though india should get port mortars? brit long bows? and buffed consulate cannon?

[howlingwolfpaw]

ohyes you are, ok i asked you to elaborate on that and you didnt. but basically I dont see how that keeps india as an intact and unique civ. they dont need LBs and port morts. they will just be gimmicky. India should be unique and strong in its own way.

and are you trying to change the bonuses of the consulate or add bonuses? changing port and french bonus is going to change boom a bit.

also it cost 100 export to change so people wont be able to change all that often unless u remove that.

[lesllamas]

so far in other threads that has been the main reason for not changing train time for urumi, that with chakrams hey are not needed. So "I disagreed with their logic, and then agree with yours by default.

I wonder if you even know what it means?
it is the refusal to accept reality of facts because it is too painful to accept the truth.

If you're typing from a computer you're even dumber than I had considered possible.

[howlingwolfpaw]

yawn dude u bore me, got something to say then say it. cause I am obviously not smart enough to understand what it is you mean by that.... im not psychic.

[lesllamas]

No but fucking google exists. But you don't seem like the type to actively seek out information.


"Here's a suggestion and a poll that asks you to agree with me."

"We don't agree with you."

"WTF I am very good player u r dum 4 not agree with me."

"No you aren't."

"WELL U HAVEN'T PROPOSED ANY SOLUTIONS!"

"That's because there isn't a fucking problem."

"UR NOT PROPOSING ANY SOLUTIONS JUST SHOOTING DOWN MY GOOD IDEAS 7/11 WAS A PART TIME JOB!"

[howlingwolfpaw]

well your way off about me

and people have mentioned a problem with india in the other thread. gitchenlord stated it pretty good.

[Gichtenlord]

I wont say more than this for now: urumis wont fix any of indias core issues. Urumis would need to be similar to hatamotos to actually win them games vs the top civs.
My consulate approach would introduce a new valid mechanic for india, which helps them in any match up. They could react to almost any situation and also put their opponent under pressure.
As I mentioned in my explanation about the consulate change before, the examples I suggested were just ouf of my mind when I wrote it. In the end, consulate armies are supposed to be more of a support than a core unit.

[ocemilky]

India do actually have cannons, for some reason though you never made consulate units... which also speaks to your experience with the civ. They have decent access to falconets. Something we are interested in is looking at would be opening up that access, reducing the cost of the 1600ex army and reducing the amount of units (currently 5 huss 3 falcs iirc). It's something that has already been brought up in the patch team and that we're working through.

Maybe we can put it to rest now - Urumi are staying as they are at least for now. If they work for you then that's fantastic. We appreciate the idea being thrown out there, we actually encourage it. But when you repeat your point 10x and we repeat our reasons 10x, then you go on about how you beat this captain one time and how you sometimes play with majors and it works.. It becomes less about balance and more about what you want and then you make it personal. I don't care if you play with major or above, I don't even care if you are major or above. The logic you're using here isn't compatible with overall game balance. You're tunnel visioned onto Urumi when you should be looking at India as a civ, their MUs, what they already have going for them and their weaknesses.

I'm sorry you feel so strongly about this. Just keep using Urumi if you want to. Nobody is making you stop.

[howlingwolfpaw]

I didn't mean to make this personal about me, but a lot of personal stuff has been thrown out to me so I have had to defend that. And I'm sorry I just do not buy your reasons. Faster urumi does not hurt anything for your higher level play. If its that bad let us noobs use it and you can then punish us for doing so by losing with them.

yes I know about consulate cannons but at 1600 per batch, your not making all that many, For me I play as I can without them (because I do not want to rely on something that I can only make a few of) but use them for base defense should I get pushed back to my walls. like I said one of my weaknesses is APM and building walls post TR and moving consulate is something I don't deal with as much as I could.

[ocemilky]

At 1600 export you actually get quite a decent amount since your 103 vills are gathering towards it the entire game. You should have a decent amount of export massed. I agree though that's it's too expensive but it's still worth using for sure. If it was brought down to 1000 export then it would be a lot more effective - say 3 falcs only perheaps, no huss.

I understand and I don't agree with the way some other posts here were laid out. My problem with urumi is that they would make already favourable matches even stronger for India, and do nothing for the matches they're weaker in, which doesn't help their problems. The other thing about Urumi is that when massed, they're insane. Making them faster to train risks that fact, and the unit would have to undergo a rework to ensure balance is maintained. For these reasons, they're most likely not going to be looked at. But feel free to continue to send them if you wish

[zoom]

No but fucking google exists. But you don't seem like the type to actively seek out information.


"Here's a suggestion and a poll that asks you to agree with me."

"We don't agree with you."

"WTF I am very good player u r dum 4 not agree with me."

"No you aren't."

"WELL U HAVEN'T PROPOSED ANY SOLUTIONS!"

"That's because there isn't a fucking problem."

"UR NOT PROPOSING ANY SOLUTIONS JUST SHOOTING DOWN MY GOOD IDEAS 7/11 WAS A PART TIME JOB!"

7/11 most definitely was a part-time job!

[zoom]

You cant balance a game for lower levels, because that's not possible. They have flaws in their mechanics and lack of experience to play the match ups correctly. How do you want to balance around that?

You also cannot balance a game by changing 2977 things at the same time, 99% of which are relatively insignificant.