Right of speech and democracy in holland

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does democracy exist in holland?

defenitely(!)
2
33%
defenitely(!)
4
67%
 
Total votes: 6

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Nauru Dolan
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Re: Right of speech and democracy in holland

Post by Dolan »

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Re: Right of speech and democracy in holland

Post by spanky4ever »

Netherland holding election for government TODAY - and the world are watching ya;)
I will repost this video that got so popular that many countries have made their own version of it. Made me lol
phpBB [video]


here is the Norwegian version: https://youtu.be/0uf7ByZq2FM
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Re: Right of speech and democracy in holland

Post by momuuu »

I think most media is doing a poor job at reporting how anti europe or foreigners we are. It'll be the decent parties winning.
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Netherlands Mr_Bramboy
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Re: Right of speech and democracy in holland

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

You have a wikipedia page dedicated to mass killings in your country since 1923. Please be silent about democracy/fascism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... present.29
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Re: Right of speech and democracy in holland

Post by OrangeRage »

Well Trump said he's like a really smart person. Trumps really really rich as well. Ofc you put Trump first listen to this!
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Re: Right of speech and democracy in holland

Post by spanky4ever »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:You have a wikipedia page dedicated to mass killings in your country. Please be silent about democracy/fascism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... _in_Turkey


lol - if you are going ancient times, Netherlands has nothing to be prowd of :oops:
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Netherland Antilles Laurence Drake
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Re: Right of speech and democracy in holland

  • Quote

Post by Laurence Drake »

iwillspankyou wrote:
Mr_Bramboy wrote:You have a wikipedia page dedicated to mass killings in your country. Please be silent about democracy/fascism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... _in_Turkey


lol - if you are going ancient times, Netherlands has nothing to be prowd of :oops:

massacres are fine so long as they are done by true christians in the name of the christian faith
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Netherlands dietschlander
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Re: Right of speech and democracy in holland

Post by dietschlander »

I know of some Dutch SS men who after the war went to Indonesia and continued what they good at, kill 'bout 25% of each male of fighting age per village
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Re: Right of speech and democracy in holland

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

iwillspankyou wrote:
Mr_Bramboy wrote:You have a wikipedia page dedicated to mass killings in your country. Please be silent about democracy/fascism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... _in_Turkey


lol - if you are going ancient times, Netherlands has nothing to be prowd of :oops:

My bad, updated link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... present.29
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Re: Right of speech and democracy in holland

Post by deleted_user »

No. You have a horrible history you also know that.. Colonization people before and now start biting people for democracy,

Also Reason of srebrenica genocide was holland soldiers btw.
https://tr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenitsa_Katliamı
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Re: Right of speech and democracy in holland

Post by deleted_user0 »

iwillspankyou wrote:
Mr_Bramboy wrote:You have a wikipedia page dedicated to mass killings in your country. Please be silent about democracy/fascism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... _in_Turkey


lol - if you are going ancient times, Netherlands has nothing to be prowd of :oops:


does any country?

people are getting truly hysterical with this historical relativity. It's good to know about your history, but all this apologetical bullshit and pretending as if people of a 1000 years ago have any real connection to you as an individual is nonsense. You can make a case for cultural influences on a society level, but really, to be proud or ashamed of a past is just so dumb. I don't have words to describe it.
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Re: Right of speech and democracy in holland

Post by spanky4ever »

umeu wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:
Mr_Bramboy wrote:You have a wikipedia page dedicated to mass killings in your country. Please be silent about democracy/fascism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... _in_Turkey


lol - if you are going ancient times, Netherlands has nothing to be prowd of :oops:


does any country?

people are getting truly hysterical with this historical relativity. It's good to know about your history, but all this apologetical bullshit and pretending as if people of a 1000 years ago have any real connection to you as an individual is nonsense. You can make a case for cultural influences on a society level, but really, to be proud or ashamed of a past is just so dumb. I don't have words to describe it.


To be honest, I kind of agree with you - mostly :!:
But 2 things:
I was not the one who brought up the issue here :!: It was out friend Bramboy who did that, in response to Breeze ridiculous accusations :uglylol:
Secondly, I was not thinking about 1000 years ago - rather the dutch history with colonization - all over the globe.

BUT, I will congratulate the Dutch ppl on your election yesterday :flowers: Dont know much about Dutch politics though, besides that you have ridiculous many political parties, and that giving more power to the alt right populist Wilders, was a scary prospect :!:
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Re: Right of speech and democracy in holland

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

deleted_user wrote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre

Just to clear up some bullshit here: Dutch soldiers (sent by the UN) were tasked in guarding Srebrenica, knowing that they were greatly outmassed by Bosnian-Serbian nationalists. Knowing this, they called for air support when they were attacked. The UN refused to grant air support for unknown reasons, and the massacre happened. This is one of the darkest pages in the history of both the UN and The Netherlands and I do not see why you bring this up in a discussion regarding democracy and freedom of speech. The UN and The Netherlands are both partly at fault for the massacre.

Now, onto the numbers and facts, even though I know you dislike them. After a series of international court cases, the Netherlands was deemed responsible for the deaths of 300 civilians, out of the 8000 murdered. Hopefully with the above information you'll realize the Netherlands didn't "kill" the civilians. For the record, killing civilians is not the same as bravely defending an enclave while outnumbered without air support.

The Netherlands apologized for the partial responsibility of the deaths of 8000 civilians. They did not need to; the international court clearly ruled that they were only responsible for 300 deaths. But they still apologized, unlike the Turkish government which still hasn't apologized for the systematic genocide of 1,500,000 harmless and innocent civilians.

Let's compare the facts: 8000 vs 1,500,000. Apology vs no apology. And the worst part is that the Turkish government still refuses to even acknowledge the Armenian genocide. That is truly disgusting.

Politics aside, please leave Turkey as soon as possible Breeze. Life will only get harder for you with Erdogan in charge.
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Re: Right of speech and democracy in holland

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Turkey had so much potential to be a good country before Erdogan started ruining everything
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Right of speech and democracy in holland

Post by Goodspeed »

umeu wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:
Mr_Bramboy wrote:You have a wikipedia page dedicated to mass killings in your country. Please be silent about democracy/fascism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... _in_Turkey


lol - if you are going ancient times, Netherlands has nothing to be prowd of :oops:


does any country?

people are getting truly hysterical with this historical relativity. It's good to know about your history, but all this apologetical bullshit and pretending as if people of a 1000 years ago have any real connection to you as an individual is nonsense. You can make a case for cultural influences on a society level, but really, to be proud or ashamed of a past is just so dumb. I don't have words to describe it.
Yeah, it's ridiculous how far people go with this. I knew some people from China and after all these years they still held such a passionate grudge against everything Japanese. I never understood it.
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Re: Right of speech and democracy in holland

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Re: Right of speech and democracy in holland

Post by deleted_user0 »

it makes some sense if a direct relative (possibly parent/grandparent) has been a victim. I could understand the sentiment, but in most cases its just brainwashing.
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Re: Right of speech and democracy in holland

Post by n0el »

Goodspeed wrote:Yeah, it's ridiculous how far people go with this. I knew some people from China and after all these years they still held such a passionate grudge against everything Japanese. I never understood it.


Well I think there's quite a difference between an atrocity that happened within a few generations of current people. If the Soviet union has committed genocide against Dutch people including your grandparents would you hold a grudge? I would like to think that I wouldn't, from an outsider perspective, but in reality if it actually happened to me I probably would.
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Re: Right of speech and democracy in holland

Post by n0el »

Damn umeu posted the same thing after i let my post sit for a while.
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Re: Right of speech and democracy in holland

Post by kami_ryu »

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Re: Right of speech and democracy in holland

Post by Goodspeed »

n0el wrote:Well I think there's quite a difference between an atrocity that happened within a few generations of current people.
There's a difference, but it's still beyond silly to hold a grudge against an entire country for the decisions made by a small group of people all of whom are now dead.

If the Soviet union has committed genocide against Dutch people including your grandparents would you hold a grudge?
At most against the people responsible, not against a country. You may say that's easy for me to say and it is, but I'm sure that I wouldn't. Actually my grandfather (who is now dead) was very involved with the Dutch resistance during WWII, and I'm sure if I looked hard enough I would find at least some relatives who fought in the war.
But so what? I can understand holding a grudge against Hitler and his buddies, or in China's case against Japanese leaders of that time, but against the country as a whole and all of its people? Ridiculous.
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Re: Right of speech and democracy in holland

Post by deleted_user0 »

kami_ryu wrote:
umeu wrote:it makes some sense if a direct relative (possibly parent/grandparent) has been a victim. I could understand the sentiment, but in most cases its just brainwashing.


asian cultures have a very strong sense of family. grandparents are very close to WW2 generally speaking these days so they probably have a sense of what happened during that time (either themselves or their own relatives). it's no surprise to me that those feelings remain today. when you see the type of acts which were committed during WW2, it comes at almost no surprise to me that the sentiment persists. that kind of stuff can't be washed away in a generation or 2..


Well it can, similar attrocities were commited in europe and still the ties with germany and european countries have healed for the most part. I mean i understand if you are a 90 year old and you've actually been in that situation that such feelings will not go away, and i can even understand that it may linger in your children and grandchildren, but at some point you gotta move on. And i think this is happening in china too now. The fact that it may have taken longer is possibly because of communist indoctrination as well? i'm not sure. When I was in vietnam I didn't really feel that many young vietnamese harboured a hatred towards americans, there may be some sentiment hidden below the surface, but it wasn't made clear. But I was only in the south, so the north may be a bit different.

Anyway at some point you have to realise that the people you are talking about are no longer the same, they are no longer the perpetrators and the victims of that time, but rather their children or their grandchildren or not even that anymore, and the children shouldnt inherit the sins or the punishment of their parents.
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Re: Right of speech and democracy in holland

Post by n0el »

I think the difference with the Asian culture is their sense of nationalism is much higher.
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Re: Right of speech and democracy in holland

Post by deleted_user0 »

Might be, i'm not saying there is no explanation for it. But nationalism is the same form of silliness. it's probably even sillier.

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