England maybe leave EU june 23.

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Niue Le Dragon
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Le Dragon »

Dolan wrote:
Le Dragon wrote:Cameron gave voters the option to decide on Britain's fate in the EU. He didn't interfere with the voting process or knowingly manipulate public opinion. In 'simplistic causation terms', the outcome of the referendum would not have happened if he had not called it in the first place. But blaming him for the outcome is like blaming the iceberg for sinking the titanic.

Well, to quote Putin, why would a leader ever call a referendum he knew he would lose... Anyway, Cameron had other choices, but I think he just wanted to stick more to power and not lose many seats in the House of Commons to populistic parties. So he gave them the referendum choice, to appease them and not lose votes to UKIP & Co.
"The people" who decided the outcome were not the most informed about the consequences. A knee-jerk reaction of 52% of participant voters to the migration problem decided the future of Britain for decades to come. Sounds like the right way of deciding the future of your country for the long term.

All good points, but none of them reasons why Cameron should be blamed.
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Dolan »

He should be blamed, if he believed that the UK should remain in the EU, he should have acted as a leader. Leaders don't lead their countries by watching the polls closely and making decisions only based on where the majority views go. Leaders are supposed to have the vision to steer their country in a positive direction, where most people can't see it, because they're short-sighted. Those voters who chose to pull the UK out of the EU were short-sighted and Cameron just played the "neutral" duck role and gave them the opportunity to vent against migration issues through their Leave vote. He basically showed no leadership, by not following his vision and trying to lead the people in the right direction. He just caved in to populistic pressures, instead of managing to dispell them. He could have come up with different migration policies, welfare policies, to make sure populists wouldn't have much voice in the outcome, but he just wasn't effective enough.

His decision to have a referendum was clearly a gamble, he never though he would lose it. That's why he even put it on the table, in the first place. I don't think if he knew he would lose he would have ever proposed it. The consequences were too big to gamble with such an outcome. But he just demonstrated error of judgment as a leader and as a result, his political career and credibility as a European leader are finished.
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Niue Le Dragon
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Le Dragon »

Dolan wrote:He should be blamed, if he believed that the UK should remain in the EU, he should have acted as a leader. Leaders don't lead their countries by watching the polls closely and making decisions only based on where the majority views go. Leaders are supposed to have the vision to steer their country in a positive direction, where most people can't see it, because they're short-sighted. Those voters who chose to pull the UK out of the EU were short-sighted and Cameron just played the "neutral" duck role and gave them the opportunity to vent against migration issues through their Leave vote. He basically showed no leadership, by not following his vision and trying to lead the people in the right direction. He just caved in to populistic pressures, instead of managing to dispell them. He could have come up with different migration policies, welfare policies, to make sure populists wouldn't have much voice in the outcome, but he just wasn't effective enough.

His decision to have a referendum was clearly a gamble, he never though he would lose it. That's why he even put it on the table, in the first place. I don't think if he knew he would lose he would have ever proposed it. The consequences were too big to gamble with such an outcome. But he just demonstrated error of judgment as a leader and as a result, his political career and credibility as a European leader are finished.

He's a bad leader =/= It was his fault
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by iNcog »

-- deleted post --

Reason: on request (off-topic bulk delete)
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Niue Le Dragon
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Le Dragon »

iNcog wrote:He gambled and the outcome was the bad one. Some argue that with proper leadership he shouldn't have taken the gamble in the first place, to be quite frank.

It's like saying that a gambler who lost 1000 bucks gambling isn't at fault for losing that money.

A gambler doesn't put his country's fate in the hands of 35 million autonomous individuals.
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Great Britain Panmaster
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Panmaster »

The Ā£:$ rate is stabilizing.
We should have a referendum on Trident now. The yanks obviously control those missiles. The UK needs a home-grown nuclear deterrent using our own nuclear material built from scratch. There thousands of tonnes of nuclear waste that could be put into bombs ready to drop on the middle-east.
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Niue Le Dragon
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Le Dragon »

Scrapping trident would put an end to Britain's nuclear capability.
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by momuuu »

Le Dragon wrote:
iNcog wrote:He gambled and the outcome was the bad one. Some argue that with proper leadership he shouldn't have taken the gamble in the first place, to be quite frank.

It's like saying that a gambler who lost 1000 bucks gambling isn't at fault for losing that money.

A gambler doesn't put his country's fate in the hands of 35 million autonomous individuals.

Isnt that exactly what a gambler would do?
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by spanky4ever »

The economic situation is what coused the upset/Brexit --and most of uk politicians should share that blame. ITS the same thing that is happening in USA! Only USA tok IT a bridge to far - and pritty much draged Europe in that very "BAD DIRECTION".
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by momuuu »

Its not really in the sense that you think it is, although it probably is. After all, scapegoats, foreigners and economical crisis go hand in hand.
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Dolan »

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37iHSwA1SwE[/video]
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by deleted_user0 »

haha hilarious. you gotta hand it to them, the brits have good comedy :P
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Dolan »

UK City of London banks will move a significant part of their staff to Europe, before Brexit negotiations complete
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... exit-looms

UK will lose lots of jobs during/after Brexit, as airlines will have to relocate staff and operations to Europe
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... jor-routes

Inflation edges higher in the UK, which will further eat into consumers' purchasing power
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... r-slowdown

BMW may move production of the Mini as a result of Brexit
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... de-threats

Immigration curbs will make it difficult for many businesses to find qualified workforce in the UK
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... exit-curbs

Dublin Is Best EU City for Bankers Fleeing Brexit, Study Says
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... study-says

Poll: Britons have contradictory, unrealistic expectations from Brexit: most support immigration control but also access to the EU Common market, cheaper phone calls (enabled by EU regulations) but also freedom from any EU regulations
http://whatukthinks.org/eu/wp-content/u ... Brexit.pdf

etc.
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by momuuu »

Good timing to revive this one dolan, shooting over there going on apperantly.
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Tuvalu gibson
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by gibson »

Brexshit
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Netherland Antilles Laurence Drake
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Laurence Drake »

rip in peace
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Dolan »

Jerom wrote:Good timing to revive this one dolan, shooting over there going on apperantly.


Tbh, I didn't realise how serious the shooting event was until much later. I thought it was just a failed attempt. Now it seems like a much more serious attack.
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by spanky4ever »

Dolan wrote:
Jerom wrote:Good timing to revive this one dolan, shooting over there going on apperantly.


Tbh, I didn't realise how serious the shooting event was until much later. I thought it was just a failed attempt. Now it seems like a much more serious attack.


What has that to do with Brexit anyway?

And scare mongering like this, is stupid imo. We had the same scary scenario when we had referendum in Norway some years ago. Didn't turn out bad - AT ALL. :shock: In fact Norway are doing pretty good - thus far :huh:
We make decisions on our own natural resources - and that is a BIG THING :!:
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Dolan »

iwillspankyou wrote:What has that to do with Brexit anyway?

Not much. I replied to Jerom about the timing.
And scare mongering like this, is stupid imo. We had the same scary scenario when we had referendum in Norway some years ago. Didn't turn out bad - AT ALL. :shock: In fact Norway are doing pretty good - thus far :huh:
We make decisions on our own natural resources - and that is a BIG THING :!:

I thought Norway is in the EEA, which basically means you have to implement EU laws and pay contributions to the EU budget, to be able to access the Common market. You're also in the Schengen area, which means you allow free movement of people in and out of Norway from/to EU countries.
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by spanky4ever »

@Dolan said

I thought Norway is in the EEA, which basically means you have to implement EU laws and pay contributions to the EU budget, to be able to access the Common market. You're also in the Schengen area, which means you allow free movement of people in and out of Norway from/to EU countries.

exept for one very important fact - we have autonomi over our natural resources :!: That is why our fishing industry are booming, and Englands have gone down the drain - long time ago :shock:
When the oil well dry out - not so long in the distanse (I hope) it is the natural resources that will be our REAL ECONOMY.
AKA: hydro power, wind power, fishing industry, agricultural, timber, fresh water - AND BRAINS :P
cos the most important natural resours is the ppl living here :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:
Btw University dont charge you any money for education, they GIVE you money for taking an education :shock: :shock:
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Wales CelticCrusader
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by CelticCrusader »

Yeah just post some scaremonger articles and your legit :hmm: . The UK economy is doing fine, and it will do fine once Brexit is finalised.
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by benj89 »

CelticCrusader wrote:Yeah just post some scaremonger articles and your legit :hmm: . The UK economy is doing fine, and it will do fine once Brexit is finalised.

exactly
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Dolan »

Those aren't opinion articles, they are pieces of news from Bloomberg.

Basically announcing that some big banks from the City will start moving a big chunk of their jobs out of the UK.

Airlines will also have to comply with EU rules and move a big part of their operations, if they want to be able to fly in continental Europe. It's only logical if you want to do business somewhere you have to comply with their laws.

As for the opinion poll, you can judge the results for yourself, whether UK voters hold contradictory opinions or not (this is from pages 11 and 12 from the poll report):

Image
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by Dolan »

I'm actually happy that this is happening.

http://www.reuters.com/investigates/spe ... -eu-banks/

Bankers getting the boot from the Uk's govt and will, most likely, relocate big parts of their London trades.

It's gonna be interesting to see who's gonna lose more in the end.
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Re: England maybe leave EU june 23.

Post by CelticCrusader »

You really trust the main stream media ? Bloomberg? Reuters? Please.I read the reuters article, same old scaremongering shit. Empty threats from the banskters as usual. And opinion polls are really not reliable. I see scaremongering all the time here in the UK from the British Bullshit Corporation and others. The left and pro eu here have no clue what will happen, they just use any opportunity to blame Brexit. So much fake news comes from the ones who claim to be legit.

The EU needs the UK, they sell lots of stuff to us, so if they make things difficult, it will affect them too. I doubt the German car manufacturers want to alienate their biggest European market. If they do they will be shooting themselves in the foot. Many other businesses in Europe rely on trade with British businesses and vice versa, so its all pretty petty from the EU to be so difficult. They are like a spoilt child who doesn't get their own way and has a tantrum. And it shows their true intentions that they want control . Why is it wrong for a country to make decisions about their country within their own borders ? The EU have zero accountability , they have imposed a political union over countries that never joined for that reason. Th EEC as it was originally called was for free trade, that's what people voted for then. They never asked for our countries sovereignty to be dissolved into a political union. The majority of the generation that voted to be in the EEC voted out of the EU. They are the people who can see the real damage and decline under this imposed bureaucracy.

Just look all over the EU and eurozone, how anyone can say its doing well and works is beyond me. Look how many countries are financially in ruin already. It doesn't take a genius to realise the EU is a sinking ship. Europe is the only continent where the economies have been declining , how long can you keep declining until the countries are on their knees ? Oh and not forgetting Merkel letting in all her friends from the middle east and africa. How do you like you aloha snackbars ? Being mowed down on the street? Being stabbed ? Shot ? Bombed ? You left wing follow the narrative yes boys make me laugh, try thinking for yourself instead of regurgitating main stream bullshit. There is a reason most of the worlds media is owned by a few large corporations, they like to drip feed you only what they want you to hear. And censor any facts they disagree with.

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