Trump - Russia connection

[Laurence Drake]

no but your mum has

[howlingwolfpaw]

Without showing proof Russia hacked anything it is hard for me to get into this. As long as the hacks were not tampering with the votes themselves then sadly to say the information wars are just part of doing business when the US has its own propaganda and ways to influence Russia via politics and sanctions. I'm greatful the information was leaked, the people need to know

Apparently Hillary receives money and has ties to Saudi Arabia, so its not like they and others were also not trying to influence the election.

Really what is to become of this? are they trying to discredit Trump and anoint Clinton in his place? ehhh I don't think so. Are they going to have a revote? NO. So what purpose does all this information/ disinformation/ drama serve to create? Are they trying to distract us from something? Escalate tensions between Russia and the US to hype up the proxy war in Syria? Is Obama going to go to war and declare martial law and the elections void to stay in power?

[Metis]

Is Obama going to go to war and declare martial law and the elections void to stay in power?

Martial law on a wide scale is never going to happen in America. First of all, the people would never put up with it and if Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan have taught us anything it is that you can't control a people who don't want to be controlled. Not to mention that the US military, like the US government, is distributed so that no one group can gain control. Even if somehow a political leader could convince the entire million-person military to follow him, they would be opposed by 25 million trained and armed military veterans.

What the Democrats are doing, however, is trying their best to legally disrupt the Electoral system in order to prevent Trump being elected by the College. This is just another "feather" in the cap of Hillary's dirty tricks that she's been using all election. Check out this video:

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQqTa0yZ2Hw[/video]

[deleted_user0]

I think Metis could be a Moscow paid troll actually.

[Gendarme]

@Metis

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I think these other ESOCians have colluded to never agree with you or me on anything.

[Laurence Drake]

@Metis

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I think these other ESOCians have colluded to never agree with you or me on anything.

Why is it that you people can only make sense of the world through conspiracy theories?

[deleted_user0]

Ah, there we have Genduurmmm... Tell us, seen any women today?

[Metis]

Why is it that you people can only make sense of the world through conspiracy theories?

It's not a conspiracy theory if you provide evidence. If you have been following the Jill Stein/Hillary Clinton "recount" effort and the interviews with all of the "faithless" Electors, it should be clear that their goal is remove enough votes from Trump to force the election into House, where they then can lobby the congressmen into voting for someone besides Trump, if not per se for Clinton. It's really going to be interesting to see what happens on Monday when the Electors meet.

[deleted_user0]

Any proof its clinton? Any quote where she asked the electors to not vote trump?

[Metis]

Clinton is too smart to come out and overtly demand that the Electors vote for her and not the candidate who won the majority of Electoral College votes. However, every time there is even the remotest possibility that the final election could be changed in her favor, you see her fingers in the pie.

Sources tell NPR's Kelly that electors in the Electoral College will not receive an intelligence briefing. -- National Public Radio

Hillary Clinton’s campaign said it is supporting a request by members of the Electoral College for an intelligence briefing on foreign intervention in the presidential election. -- Politico

[spanky4ever]

For once I kind of agree with @metis

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on this issue. If there are ANY proof of Russia being involved, Why dont they release it??
The accusation of Russia involvement is a smokescreen imo, not to take the facts from the leaks, seriously! I for one are kind of glad the Clinton campaigne where revealed, Im particularly glad the shenanigans they pulled on Sanders, came out!
I guess Clinton and USA are furious if another state interfere in other states elections! This is the USA job - and they have done it all over the globe? take a minute or 2 to listen too this tape of Clinton?
[video]https://youtu.be/qxJgaJr5-Lk[/video]

[spanky4ever]

there are other, more plausible sources for the wikileaks coming up recently. AND this source is not anonymous, like the CIA (bs) one are:
[video]https://youtu.be/JafSyi4ZZ7w[/video]

[spanky4ever]

The propaganda advocating the "NEW RED SCARE" again by Clinton, Obama and DNC, are very frightening IMO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC3CKUuZOQs

[musketjr]

sorry but how is this goofy babbling ADD prick a source of news? is this what you people think is political analysis?

it's sad that in these intellectually deprived times public figures clamour over each other to best impersonate pewdiepie's artificial irreverence and abject superficiality. no, i don't want the other extreme - metis's narrow minded, pedantic wikipediaism.

for god's sake have some pride and put a little bit of thought into whose judgements and insights you decide to take seriously

[spanky4ever]

I wish you could be more spesific @musketjr?

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To just say you dismiss - everything- not making any kind of arguments - is a bit odd imo!

[deleted_user0]

Clinton is too smart to come out and overtly demand that the Electors vote for her and not the candidate who won the majority of Electoral College votes. However, every time there is even the remotest possibility that the final election could be changed in her favor, you see her fingers in the pie.

Sources tell NPR's Kelly that electors in the Electoral College will not receive an intelligence briefing. -- National Public Radio

Hillary Clinton’s campaign said it is supporting a request by members of the Electoral College for an intelligence briefing on foreign intervention in the presidential election. -- Politico

Oh lol... so that is proof, but when it's intelligence agencies saying stuff about Russia and Trump, its what? Just some gossip?

I think you really got mixed up what proof actually means. It seems to me you've got none at all. You imagining fingers in a pie is not proof by my standards... Looks like laurence was right after all.

[Metis]

Watch Obama's interview regarding the Russian cyberhacking and you will notice that he says that this is common among intelligence agencies, including those of the US. The Russians in no way changed the outcome of the election. All they did was to help bring to light the corruption of the Clinton camp, a corruption so pervasive that it was being revealed from other sources anyway. Sure, they were acting in their own best self interests but at this time these coincide with the best self interests of the US as well.

If you have forgotten, here are some things that Clinton has done:

Violated federal security laws.
Violated conflict of interest and other ethical rules.
Perjured herself before Congress and the FBI.
Most likely violated RICO laws.
Had her people incite riots.
Shredded documents and deleted e-mails in an attempt to hide her crimes, thus obstructing justice.
Granted access to the inner workings of government in exchange for payments to her foundation.
Pushed for the US to enforce a no-fly zone over Syria, which would, according the the leading US generals, have been tantamount to declaring war on Russia and Syria.
Been "bought" by Saudi Arabia and other countries that support terrorism.
Conspired with the DNC to ensure that Sanders didn't win the primaries.
Conspired with media sources in order to gain an advantage in the presidential debates.

I'm not going to link a hundred articles, just Google this stuff.

[Goodspeed]

sorry but how is this goofy babbling ADD prick a source of news? is this what you people think is political analysis?

it's sad that in these intellectually deprived times public figures clamour over each other to best impersonate pewdiepie's artificial irreverence and abject superficiality. no, i don't want the other extreme - metis's narrow minded, pedantic wikipediaism.

for god's sake have some pride and put a little bit of thought into whose judgements and insights you decide to take seriously

Good to have you back

[Dolan]

How stupid is this guy?

Also, as far as I know, there is an investigation under way which will issue a report in January, next year. It's supposed to throw light on the Russian hacking issue and provide as much evidence as it's possible without revealing the cybertech capabilities the US has right now. That's also what Obama explained in the last press conference.

I've just achieved 1337 status

[oats13]

The thing is that it just doesn't matter what Russia has done, because any negative contents of e-mails are the responsibility of the owner/sender.

Every European country pretty much openly 'campaigned' as such for Hilary and if any information on dodgy e-mails from Trump had come to light then certainly they would have been leaked.

People will just have to have private meetings when they wish to go off-message, just like they always used to.

[deleted_user0]

Watch Obama's interview regarding the Russian cyberhacking and you will notice that he says that this is common among intelligence agencies, including those of the US. The Russians in no way changed the outcome of the election. All they did was to help bring to light the corruption of the Clinton camp, a corruption so pervasive that it was being revealed from other sources anyway. Sure, they were acting in their own best self interests but at this time these coincide with the best self interests of the US as well.

If you have forgotten, here are some things that Clinton has done:

Violated federal security laws.
Violated conflict of interest and other ethical rules.
Perjured herself before Congress and the FBI.
Most likely violated RICO laws.
Had her people incite riots.
Shredded documents and deleted e-mails in an attempt to hide her crimes, thus obstructing justice.
Granted access to the inner workings of government in exchange for payments to her foundation.
Pushed for the US to enforce a no-fly zone over Syria, which would, according the the leading US generals, have been tantamount to declaring war on Russia and Syria.
Been "bought" by Saudi Arabia and other countries that support terrorism.
Conspired with the DNC to ensure that Sanders didn't win the primaries.
Conspired with media sources in order to gain an advantage in the presidential debates.

I'm not going to link a hundred articles, just Google this stuff.

i cant really be bothered to read through all of it, but it seems to me, you still havent listed any proof about clinton asking the electors to vote for her and not trump. metis, you are really starting to seem like these guys with a tin foil hat now. You're kinda like this guy atm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2whrQTHp7U

[spanky4ever]

guess she gets her puppy Podesta to do it instead: https://www.google.no/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... Ouh0Gu3bgw
tbo - could be a good idea - more facts - is better than ignorance

[noissance]

For once I kind of agree with @metis

notification

on this issue. If there are ANY proof of Russia being involved, Why dont they release it??
The accusation of Russia involvement is a smokescreen imo, not to take the facts from the leaks, seriously! I for one are kind of glad the Clinton campaigne where revealed, Im particularly glad the shenanigans they pulled on Sanders, came out!
I guess Clinton and USA are furious if another state interfere in other states elections! This is the USA job - and they have done it all over the globe? take a minute or 2 to listen too this tape of Clinton?
[video]https://youtu.be/qxJgaJr5-Lk[/video]

They dont release it because they dont want to expose the double agents they have in the kremlin, obviously

[howlingwolfpaw]

Is Obama going to go to war and declare martial law and the elections void to stay in power?

Martial law on a wide scale is never going to happen in America. First of all, the people would never put up with it and if Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan have taught us anything it is that you can't control a people who don't want to be controlled. Not to mention that the US military, like the US government, is distributed so that no one group can gain control. Even if somehow a political leader could convince the entire million-person military to follow him, they would be opposed by 25 million trained and armed military veterans.

What the Democrats are doing, however, is trying their best to legally disrupt the Electoral system in order to prevent Trump being elected by the College. This is just another "feather" in the cap of Hillary's dirty tricks that she's been using all election. Check out this video:

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQqTa0yZ2Hw[/video]

I certainly hope you are right, but the gove has contingencies and hidden camps and holding centers already built.

I think they have many avenues and back up plans, but with massive civil unrest if something happened to cancel the election or deny trump, people might actually DEMAND it. And I think that is what could happen. imagine if the riots from trumps win were not just limited to a few cities? people were already demanding actions. Or what if we got into a hot war with russia, would Obama hand over the reins in middle of fight? what really is the intent to all this Russia allegations. What is their objective? I dont think those people who dont want to be controlled will accept a hillary upturn.

[Metis]

Or what if we got into a hot war with russia, would Obama hand over the reins in middle of fight? what really is the intent to all this Russia allegations. What is their objective? I dont think those people who dont want to be controlled will accept a hillary upturn.

There's not going to be a war with Russia. Not only has Putin, himself, acknowledged that the US is the world's only superpower. He knows that he has like three sort-of competent allies while the US has more than 30 powerful ones. The China-Russia connection is no longer a sure thing now that Russia is no longer Communist and CHina is Communist only superficially (not to mention that without the West importing their goods China would be hard pressed to maintain their new capitalist economy).

Also, there has never been a president who didn't relinquish power after an elections, even during war. Remember that the military are not sworn to uphold the US president but to support the Constitution. The military are sworn to follow lawful orders of the president but a president trying to hold onto power after his term of service is up would not be the lawful president.