climate change - how to go forward

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Sweden martinspjuth
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by martinspjuth »

iwillspankyou wrote:@martinspjuth do you have any suggestions of the "way forward" ?

I do believe in the points i made in my first post in this thread. They are very general in shape, but the details needs to be figured out by people who are working with each project/product/issue. Other than that the Thorium reactors you are talking about do seem like something worth testing. For that to be realised, i think you would have to educate a lot of people of why that is better and securer than Uranium reactors. Many people are still against any kind of nuclear reactors. Getting the general population to understand and accept that the government want to try a new sort of nuclear reactor might be hard in some countries, for example Germany who have decided to shut down all their current nuclear reactors.

The need for power is not the only problem when it comes to the enviroment though. We need to find better ways of taking care of waste products, i.e. recyckling (and many/most countries simply need to start using the methods that currently exist for recycling). We also should look into working with other materials. Today alot of stuff contains plastic and plastics are in many cases made out of oil. Finding an alternative to plastics would help lowering our dependency on fossil fuels.

The deforestation also needs to be stoped, so does the the desertification of many land areas (caused by climate change, deforestation and overexploitation of soil etc). More effective food production could help here, more food from a lesser area of land. GMO products could be a solution here.

If we can just get the whole world to work together towards a more enviromental friendly way of life i think we can come long way. As of what the governments can do, they should simply suport development and research on new technology and try to make them economically acceptable. They can also put up laws/rules to regulate the production of greenhouses gases. For example having a CO2 emission tax that depends on how many tons of CO2 a company produce during a year. Would encourage the companies to find other solutions so that they could avoid the taxes. As individual citizens we can just try to stay educated on the subject, try to lower our personal effect on the enviroment (drive less, use bike more, waste less food, recycle etc) and vote for politicians who seem to have the best way forward (not neccecary the one who speak loudest about climate change).

There really isn't much you can do on an online forum, especially one who's main purpose is to suport a game. But it is interesting to read about, i didn't know about Thorium reactors potetial before, niether did i know that the ice actualy was increasing.
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Norway spanky4ever
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by spanky4ever »

you make many good arguments in your post@martinspjuth . I also think this topic has to be discussed in the light of the global economic situations. Cos we have made an economy who can only survive with further growth - meaning we will have to spend more to keep the factories going! And the resources are so unevenly distributed, that it its not sustainable - hasn't been for decades - and the never ending persuet for more and more wealth accumulating to a few ppl, are the big drivers for pollution, government corruption and political paralysis IMO
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Sweden martinspjuth
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by martinspjuth »

Thanks.
I agree with you too. There are few things which can be discussed without taking the economy into account. Measures to reduce the climate changes are always depending on how much of a blow it would be to the economy.

The current economic system might not be perfect, but i'm not sure what would actually be better in practise. How to fix the economy and every other subjects dependence on economy is something very complicated (and probably better suited for your thread about "the downturn of US eco..." or some other thread).
European Union matty1248
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by matty1248 »

:D this is a pretty random thing to find on aoe forums.
You should not confuse the energy problem with climate change, these are two separate issue's. The reason why it suits people to use fossil fuels for energy is because it is fairly concentrated regionally and also because it's energy density is so high. When a resource is concentrated like this it allows for deals to be made between parties, where distributed resources like thorium/winds/tides/etc allow money only to be made by those with intellectual rights . The people who are interested in financial gain and the people who are interested in natural dynamics and problem solving are fundamentally different people and this lies at the heart of the problem.
To speak about a 'way forward' as such is a fallacy, the most optimistic targets of any climate change organisation don't propose reductions in greenhouse gas output at any faster a rate than declining production necessitates (they simply want to tax you for it as it runs out). To hope for anything less than use of all fossil fuels (within viable extraction limits) in my opinion is fool hardy.
Their are also many factory never mentioned in the media regarding this debate as the general public likes their news to be simple and digestible. Consider for example the natural sequestration rate globally for CO2, What is it? And how does it compare to our output? Also consider the fact that a lot of these atmospheric greenhouse gases and particles will have an affect on the amount of moisture that the atmosphere can contain and therefore a knock on affect on the earths reflectivity. I have heard it said that the amount of light hitting the planet now as opposed to 50 yrs ago could be as little as half what it was seventy years ago due to polluting particles, additional greenhouse gasses and the additional moisture they can carry.
And so, I see the problem as very complex. the climate problem is beyond our influence as to find international agreement within a suitable time frame is not forseable. The energy problem itself is very simple to solve, there are many viable sources of energy and they have been known of and partially utilised for decades. There is also no real problem in producing liquid fuels from feedstocks and there are now next generation battery types that have been proven and can be made from similarly common raw materials to thorium. However to implement the economic changes required to propogate these outcomes is again not desirable to those with the power to do so until our current sources become significantly more expensive.
These are my oppinions by the way (born of many years obsessing with this issue),they are not standard arguments and neither are they pseudo-scientific, if anyone has any converse thoughts on this I would be interested. I did study this in some depth in University but I would suggest that the main considerations are not really of a scientific nature but simply relate to human behaviour.


PS: you will find many other energy sources like thorium reactors which were pushed out by the nuclear lobby when the previous generation of nuclear reactors were being lobbied, this is simply not the issue.


:smile:
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by matty1248 »

Also, these issues of hydro power and 'increased ice at the south pole':
There is simply not more ice at the antarctic, studies on various glaciers show their retreat, the thing which is increasing is the surface area it presents to the sun which affects how much light is reflected away from the planet. This is not an issue that could be used to discredit the idea of climate change, it simply shows that the salinity of the water surrounding the antarctic is decreased (due to an influx of fresh water) and therefore the freezing point is increased.
With regards to hydro electric dams, they are clearly not viable as they lead to unsustainable breaks in the bio-systems therein. There is however clearly a powerful and consistent source of energy here however. I have in the past considered turbine arrays consisting of in-line induced vortex turbines which i think might have merit.
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Tokelau jesus3
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by jesus3 »

more walls to keep the climate change out
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by Dolan »

matty1248 wrote:hydro electric dams ... lead to unsustainable breaks in the bio-systems therein.


Do you mean that building dams can have disruptive effects on the the streamflow (discharge) of a river and on the aquatic life (such as fish habitats)?
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by Jam »

I thought when it came to climate change you would want to go backwards.
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Netherland Antilles Laurence Drake
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by Laurence Drake »

climate change is solved when there is no climate
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