Netherlands the most racist country

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United States of America evilcheadar
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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

Post by evilcheadar »

USA op country tbh
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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

Post by momuuu »

3/10 bait. Try harder.
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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

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n0el wrote:
Laurence Drake wrote:It is well-documented that Geert Wilders is the patron of H2O.


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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

Post by noissance »

Yeah, that's a very bigoted statement irrespective of the country it is used on. There are at least as many good people as bad ones in the world, but because of political systems, the rest get dragged along with majority rule.
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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

Post by iNterstellaR »

JakeyBoyTH wrote:Australia is by far the most racist country. Its no competition. Sorry Australians.


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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

Post by bobabu »

noissance wrote:Yeah, that's a very bigoted statement irrespective of the country it is used on. There are at least as many good people as bad ones in the world, but because of political systems, the rest get dragged along with majority rule.


Making a generalization was never my intent. This statement was supposed to be provocative. A country as a whole can be racist. The country, however, doesn't always represent the people. Anyways my intent was to show that europe is moving to the right aswell which is a big danger. Mark Rutte is from a right party. He has removed a law which made it illegal to deny the holocaust and he supports anti immigrant policies. I know that there are even worse people in the netherlands which doesn't mean that he is good, though. Which was an arguement of a comment I read.
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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

Post by noissance »

iNterstellaR wrote:
JakeyBoyTH wrote:Australia is by far the most racist country. Its no competition. Sorry Australians.


Hey now, we are a lovely bunch!

Till the dingos took over... :devilrazz:
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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

Post by deleted_user0 »

bobabu wrote:
noissance wrote:Yeah, that's a very bigoted statement irrespective of the country it is used on. There are at least as many good people as bad ones in the world, but because of political systems, the rest get dragged along with majority rule.


Making a generalization was never my intent. This statement was supposed to be provocative. A country as a whole can be racist. The country, however, doesn't always represent the people. Anyways my intent was to show that europe is moving to the right aswell which is a big danger. Mark Rutte is from a right party. He has removed a law which made it illegal to deny the holocaust and he supports anti immigrant policies. I know that there are even worse people in the netherlands which doesn't mean that he is good, though. Which was an arguement of a comment I read.


Rutte didnt remove that law, we never had that law. He just opposed and blocked implementing suxh law. And for once i agree with the man. Forbidding denying the holocaust is such petty paternalism and more in spirit with totalitarianism that democratic values. You should raise your citizens and educate them to know their history instead of scaring them with pubishment. Sure the effect is the same, a society where peoples actions are guided by fear of law will be hard to distinguish from a society where peoples actions are guided by their moral convictions, and yet they are fundamentally different.
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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

Post by momuuu »

bobabu wrote:
noissance wrote:Yeah, that's a very bigoted statement irrespective of the country it is used on. There are at least as many good people as bad ones in the world, but because of political systems, the rest get dragged along with majority rule.


Making a generalization was never my intent. This statement was supposed to be provocative. A country as a whole can be racist. The country, however, doesn't always represent the people. Anyways my intent was to show that europe is moving to the right aswell which is a big danger. Mark Rutte is from a right party. He has removed a law which made it illegal to deny the holocaust and he supports anti immigrant policies. I know that there are even worse people in the netherlands which doesn't mean that he is good, though. Which was an arguement of a comment I read.

I think you lack serious insight in the state of the Netherlands. Also what umeu said.
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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

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Nauru Dolan
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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

Post by Dolan »

Making laws to prohibit a certain opinion is not part of a state's competence, imo. The state shouldn't be concerned with establishing truth in opinions.

In my country such a law which forbids denying the holocaust has been passed in order to appease the Jewish lobby and score points with them. We don't really have a debate on this, but still it's disappointing our politicians chose to ban the debate just to score some points with a lobby. Everyone should be free to open debates based on verifiable facts.

If you ban a certain kind of debate, it's possible this will backfire and people might feel inclined to believe unofficial stories one day, just because the truth is imposed by law (and many people distrust state authority).
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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

Post by bobabu »

umeu wrote:
bobabu wrote:
noissance wrote:Yeah, that's a very bigoted statement irrespective of the country it is used on. There are at least as many good people as bad ones in the world, but because of political systems, the rest get dragged along with majority rule.


Making a generalization was never my intent. This statement was supposed to be provocative. A country as a whole can be racist. The country, however, doesn't always represent the people. Anyways my intent was to show that europe is moving to the right aswell which is a big danger. Mark Rutte is from a right party. He has removed a law which made it illegal to deny the holocaust and he supports anti immigrant policies. I know that there are even worse people in the netherlands which doesn't mean that he is good, though. Which was an arguement of a comment I read.


Rutte didnt remove that law, we never had that law. He just opposed and blocked implementing suxh law. And for once i agree with the man. Forbidding denying the holocaust is such petty paternalism and more in spirit with totalitarianism that democratic values. You should raise your citizens and educate them to know their history instead of scaring them with pubishment. Sure the effect is the same, a society where peoples actions are guided by fear of law will be hard to distinguish from a society where peoples actions are guided by their moral convictions, and yet they are fundamentally different.



This is the same problem they have in the US. By opposing such a law you're also playing with the facts. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech.
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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

Post by deleted_user0 »

There is no law against being delusional, and lying, even though deplorable, is not a crime in most circumstances. Are we going to criminalize the denial of every violent act in history? And what exactly will we ban? Its not okay to say the holocaust didnt happen, but its ok to say it did happen but it was not a bad thing? If that's not okay, why is it okay to say the same thing about the atom bomb for example?

Making this into a legal issue just has so many slippery slopes and problems attached to it, while it doesn't even achieve to change the mind of people who would actually believe this nonsense. In fact, it would most likely only reinforce their belief that there is some sort of conspiracy.
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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

Post by deleted_user0 »

kami_ryu wrote:
umeu wrote:
Show hidden quotes


Rutte didnt remove that law, we never had that law. He just opposed and blocked implementing suxh law. And for once i agree with the man. Forbidding denying the holocaust is such petty paternalism and more in spirit with totalitarianism that democratic values. You should raise your citizens and educate them to know their history instead of scaring them with pubishment. Sure the effect is the same, a society where peoples actions are guided by fear of law will be hard to distinguish from a society where peoples actions are guided by their moral convictions, and yet they are fundamentally different.


I agree with the sentiment against censorship. However don't you think that denying the holocaust is quite close to a hate crime? Denying the holocaust outright seems like a hateful thing to do, especially since it's basically a lie.


Well, I find the term hatecrime pretty vague. Is it a hatecrime that most common european history books and recounting in movies have cut out the effort of colonial soldiers out of the world wars? I agree that there are limits to freedom of speech, and that there are certain things you cannot say in public, but I don't see a reason to make a specific law to ban denial of holocaust. The usual anti-semitic sentiment that goes with it qualifies such statements to be banned from public speech on grounds of racism.
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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

Post by pecelot »

Long story short, forcing is useless and inappropriate, better educate and hope people have dem brainz 2 tink.
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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

Post by kami_ryu »

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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

Post by deleted_user0 »

kami_ryu wrote:
umeu wrote:
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Well, I find the term hatecrime pretty vague. Is it a hatecrime that most common european history books and recounting in movies have cut out the effort of colonial soldiers out of the world wars? I agree that there are limits to freedom of speech, and that there are certain things you cannot say in public, but I don't see a reason to make a specific law to ban denial of holocaust. The usual anti-semitic sentiment that goes with it qualifies such statements to be banned from public speech on grounds of racism.

That's fair enough a way to look at things. Come to think of it, 9-11 or moon landing conspiracies aren't banned either. Though honestly there's pretty much always anti-semitism accompanying holocaust denial, which is probably why most lawmakers banned the discussion outright.


yeah exactly. where will you draw the line? If you deny that the moonlanding happened, are you disrespecting the lives of the families who lost loved ones when the challenger blew up? There is ofcourse a difference between targeting individuals and targeting groups, but i feel this is too complicated for an outright ban. Specially since the holocaust is pretty much the only experience in recent history i think such laws apply to, while there are so many different experiences which would qualify then. Are we going to ban denying the armenian genocide for example? Are we going to also ban the herero people genocide? what about genocide attributed to the settlers on the american plains and mexican peninsula? Genghis khan, ceasar, alexander? They are pretty well established facts, even though the further back in history we go, the harder it gets to make these proofs. Is it really necessary to forbid people to contest these claims?
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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

Post by zoom »

Sais the Swiss.
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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

Post by bobabu »

zoom wrote:Sais the Swiss.


Amount of foreigners netherlands: 4 percent
Amount of foreigners switzerland: 25 percent

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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

Post by Dolan »

bobabu wrote:Amount of foreigners netherlands: 4 percent
Amount of foreigners switzerland: 25 percent

What do you mean by "foreigners"?

Expats? Refugees? Ethnic minorities?
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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

Post by bobabu »

Dolan wrote:
bobabu wrote:Amount of foreigners netherlands: 4 percent
Amount of foreigners switzerland: 25 percent

What do you mean by "foreigners"?

Expats? Refugees? Ethnic minorities?


For example switzerland has 300000 people from former Yugoslavia while the netherlands has 5000....
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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

Post by deleted_user0 »

The netherlands has 12%, but also 2x the population, so the actual numbers are about the same. The percentages are lower ofcourse. However, I'm quite sure this percentage only includes non EU citizens. Including EU citizens, the percentage is closer to 20%, which isn't all that different from Switzerland. In fact, most (west)european countries have roughly the same amount of nationals/foreigners ratio ranging from 15% to 25% of the population.

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bevolking_van_Nederland
Here you can see that non-western immigrants is about 12% while there is another 8-9% of western immigrants. It's funny though that when you look at some other numbers provided by other sites it only mentions the 12% of non-western immigrants. Kinda makes you wonder... The numbers provided on the above wiki are from the government, so can be considered (fairly) accurate.
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Re: Netherlands the most racist country

Post by bobabu »

umeu wrote:The netherlands has 12%, but also 2x the population, so the actual numbers are about the same. The percentages are lower ofcourse. However, I'm quite sure this percentage only includes non EU citizens. Including EU citizens, the percentage is closer to 20%, which isn't all that different from Switzerland. In fact, most (west)european countries have roughly the same amount of nationals/foreigners ratio ranging from 15% to 25% of the population.

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bevolking_van_Nederland
Here you can see that non-western immigrants is about 12% while there is another 8-9% of western immigrants. It's funny though that when you look at some other numbers provided by other sites it only mentions the 12% of non-western immigrants. Kinda makes you wonder... The numbers provided on the above wiki are from the government, so can be considered (fairly) accurate.


Sorry but those statistics are simply false. You taking people into account who own a passport in the Netherlands. Don't be ignorant it's not true that most EU countries have roughly the same amount especially not the Netherlands. That statement is just ridiculous.

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