The long history of populism in the deep south

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Re: The long history of populism in the deep south

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Dolan wrote:Le Pen's % is in the thirties. She'll get in the second round, then everyone else will unite to defeat her. But again, I'm not afraid of a Le Pen win. I know the French will not vote for her anti-EU shit. The only reason she's on a roll now is because of immigration issues and Hollande's major failure to secure France against terrorism. That doesn't mean people would support everything she says, like closer relations with Russia, dismantling NATO, pulling out of the EU/Euro etc. People know she can't do any of that without holding a referendum, and then the people will vote against her "nationalism". The French are too smart for that. They're just at the end of their tether when it comes to Muslim and African immigration and no politician seems able or willing to solve that. That's why Le Pen is even relevant right now.

She has been lashing out at the EU for years now and didn't get so popular thanks to that. Her rise to popularity began on the backdrop of a failing political establishment and rising immigration levels.

Brexit happened for different reasons. What pushed the Brits over the edge was immigration again, but this was bound to happen in a country that has had a long history of Euroscepticism. You have to understand British foreign policy hasn't changed at all during the last few hundreds of years. They're still trying to pit one European country against another to avoid Europe banding together in a strong political and economic entity. They've been doing that in the 18th century, during the Concert of Europe, during the 19th century when they tried to join the Triple Alliance in order to destroy it etc. The Brits never liked a strong Europe, moreso now when they don't have the empire anymore which makes them feel even less relevant and fidgety.


Well I certainly hope you are right but I'm still pretty nervous
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Re: The long history of populism in the deep south

Post by Laurence Drake »

Dolan wrote:
Finally, populism won't spread to Europe, because on average Europeans are smarter in terms of political culture. We don't have the typical US issues with guns and bibles and curing homosexuals with electricity. Europeans have more political and historical experience. We're not so split along "democrat/liberal" "republican" lines. Our politics is more fragmented and based on proportional representation. No 2-party system, no such simple dichotomies like in the US. We rarely, if ever, have one party gain a majority of seats in the parliament, enough to have its own one-party government. I don't even remember last time we had that. It's mostly about coalition governments here, so this means more variable points of view are represented in the act of government.

Two words: Silvio Berlusconi

Also there are problems using HDI to compare Europe to the USA. First there's the fact that development varies between different regions of the US, as it does between Eastern and Western Europe. Then there's the fact that the HDI was mainly designed to measure the developmental progress of poorer countries. It's not useful as a tool for comparing highly developed countries, since at the point where HDI exceeds ~0.8 the differences don't become substantial, and the quality of life you experience will be more related to your income and profession than which country you live in.

For example, HDI takes into account expected years of schooling, and students in Singapore are expected to attend school for around 10 years, and in America for around 13 years. Is this supposed to make Singapore poorer than the USA? The relevance of this comparison becomes even more suspect when you bear in mind that Singapore is an educational powerhouse and the USA isn't.

I wouldn't correlate populism with development. Some of the richest states in the US voted for Trump. What's more important is the loss of community, identity and pride that comes with the decline in traditional industries and the arrival of immigrants. The refugee crisis and the great recession have sparked a cultural discussion in the EU of what it means to be European, and this soul-searching could very well lead to a populist victory in France or the Netherlands some time soon.
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Re: The long history of populism in the deep south

Post by milku3459 »

Like America, my country doesn't actually produce much but relies on providing financial services and being smart lil Asians.
Instead of trying to get back all the manufacturing jobs, we export them and get better ones designing stuff. We'd rather design the products than be paid $7/hr to make them.
But I understand the situation is different elsewhere--here we have 6 million people but the US has a few hundred million, so some people have no choice but to take less paying jobs to get maneh
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Re: The long history of populism in the deep south

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Singapore also has many second-class citizens who do the low-paid jobs so that the locals can work in offices.
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Re: The long history of populism in the deep south

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Laurence Drake wrote:Two words: Silvio Berlusconi

Berlusconi came to power by building political coallitions first.

Or was your point related to populism? If so, then Berlusconi was more of a centre-right leader in Italy. Since he was affiliated with the EPP in the European parliament, it's obvious he wasn't just a populist. He wasn't an Italian Trump, that's for sure. Berlusconi is actually a smart and educated guy, he can speak French very well. He made his 7bn fortune by himself, didn't inherit much from his dad, like Trump. Even though both are perceived as populist clowns, Berlusconi is not a narcissistic Twitterer who can't stand any criticism or slight. And he surely had no alt-right following like Trump.
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Re: The long history of populism in the deep south

Post by evilcheadar »

Dolan wrote:
Laurence Drake wrote:Two words: Silvio Berlusconi

Berlusconi came to power by building political coallitions first.

Or was your point related to populism? If so, then Berlusconi was more of a centre-right leader in Italy. Since he was affiliated with the EPP in the European parliament, it's obvious he wasn't just a populist. He wasn't an Italian Trump, that's for sure. Berlusconi is actually a smart and educated guy, he can speak French very well. He made his 7bn fortune by himself, didn't inherit much from his dad, like Trump. Even though both are perceived as populist clowns, Berlusconi is not a narcissistic Twitterer who can't stand any criticism or slight. And he surely had no alt-right following like Trump.

Trump is not dumb, just not true. People don't just wander into his position.
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Re: The long history of populism in the deep south

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evilcheadar wrote:People don't just wander into his position.

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Re: The long history of populism in the deep south

Post by n0el »

They don't wander. They get their hand held.
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Re: The long history of populism in the deep south

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yesh, I'm sure you're smarter than bush and trump daddy
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Re: The long history of populism in the deep south

Post by n0el »

I like my odds
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Re: The long history of populism in the deep south

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"The end result of this, though, is that our opponents, the media and the whole world will soon see as we begin to take further actions, that the powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned."
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Re: The long history of populism in the deep south

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Jam wrote:"The end result of this, though, is that our opponents, the media and the whole world will soon see as we begin to take further actions, that the powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned."


This is why I want Trump impeached. Pence would be bad but I don't believe he would be authoritarian like Trump.
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Re: The long history of populism in the deep south

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Too bad Pennsylvania went Red this election, eh?
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Re: The long history of populism in the deep south

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Laurence Drake wrote:Too bad Pennsylvania went Red this election, eh?


Don't blame me!
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Re: The long history of populism in the deep south

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Re: The long history of populism in the deep south

Post by milku3459 »

Laurence Drake wrote:Singapore also has many second-class citizens who do the low-paid jobs so that the locals can work in offices.

*migrant workers
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Re: The long history of populism in the deep south

Post by milku3459 »

kami_ryu wrote:
Jam wrote:"The end result of this, though, is that our opponents, the media and the whole world will soon see as we begin to take further actions, that the powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned."


It's fucking absurd that words like these are even pronounced in a democracy. I say.


You should come here lol in an unprecedented abuse of power the government is railroading one of their own to the presidency. Time for some backstory.

For the past few terms, a Chinese dude has been the president (a largely ceremonial position, kinda like head diplomat). Every 4 years we elect one.

We are very big on racial harmony in a day and age of nationalism. Our "counties" are called GRCs, or Group Rep Constituencies. A few people run for election to represent those residents in Parliament every 4 years and those people must be form multiple races. Government housing blocks are intentionally mixed racially in order to prevent a "Indian ghetto" and a "china land". As a result of these laws and extensive efforts, there is virtually zero racism and race hate actions. Religious and race hate speech and actions are a crime.
In order to ensure equal representation in the presidency, the government (or actually the PAP because they have massive majority) has just passed a law to say that the next prez must be a Malay, as there hasn't been one for 3 or 4 terms (I think). If a race hasn't had a prez in the last few terms, the new law says that the upcoming election is reserved exclusively for them. Sounds very nice right?

Until you realise...
1. In the previous election, there was a 4 cornered race between Chinese guys. The PAP (party in control since independence) backed candidate won by 7000 votes. Never has a PAP candidate ever lost by so little.
2. PAP has the only Malay Politician eligible to run
3. The Malay + slightly revised upward rules about running a company requirements eliminates the guy who came in a close 2nd last election.
4. The Malay woman politician from the PAP, pretty much the only person eligible to run, is the Speaker of the House. During the debate over the law, a minister addressed "The Speaker of the House" as "Madam President" TWICE in a few minutes. Freudian slip?
5. The first president was a Malay, so they did not begin counting terms from him. Instead, they decided to count from this random Chinese prez (who wasn't even elected) just so that the maximum number of terms allowed without another race happens to land on the upcoming election.

6. When asked why they counted from that guy in particular by the opposition, the PAP replied that the Attorney General had communicated it to the Prime Minster (the power). The opposition then asked for the statement in writing--PAP replied by saying that the statement from the Attorney General was verbal and "are you calling the Prime Minister untrustworthy?"

7. Earlier I talked about GRCs having multiple racial reps. The WP opposition asked "what happens if Halimah Yacob (that Malay politician) gets elected? Will they have a by-election for her GRC since once she leaves, there will be 3 Chinese guys to represent and that's not racially mixed?"
The reply: "we must come together as one people to represent all"
Can't you do that for the presidency too? It's not like Malays suffered under other race presidents?!?! Malays also don't like it because it takes away the chance for a very capable and experienced woman who would probably be an excellent president to run and win the office on her own merits rather than on her race.

Not sure why I wanted to post this here but I thought you guys might enjoy it esp Dolan
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Re: The long history of populism in the deep south

Post by Laurence Drake »

It's bad, but Singapore still has a lot to be grateful for. It's still a model for racial harmony within the region, especially in comparison with neighbouring Malaysia.
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Re: The long history of populism in the deep south

Post by milku3459 »

Laurence Drake wrote:It's bad, but Singapore still has a lot to be grateful for. It's still a model for racial harmony within the region, especially in comparison with neighbouring Malaysia.

Racial harmony is great!
Economy is fantastic!
Personal freedoms? Not as much
Usually the government is very transparent and thinks about the people (although minsters are very cringe tbh) but this so so thinly veiled
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Re: The long history of populism in the deep south

Post by milku3459 »

n0el wrote:I like my odds

Mimsy for president
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Re: The long history of populism in the deep south

Post by Dolan »

@milku3459

Yeah, it's interesting, thanks.

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