Can someone explain why sepoy so op

United States of America cedarfarms
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Can someone explain why sepoy so op

Post by cedarfarms »

My buddy did a test in scenario editor to compare how different muskets trade in hand attack vs cav and the results are as follows, but first, the test was 32 cossacks vs 20 of each musket unit, there was no range engagement, the muskets were in melee the entire time.
Vs 32 Cossack, 20 jan all died and 10 cossack survived
" ", 20 euro musk all died, and 12 cossack survived
" ", 20 ashi all died, and 13 cossack survived
" " 20 toma all died and 16 cossack survived
Now the op sepoys, 20 sepoy vs 32 cossack resulted in 32 cossack dying with 9 sepoy surviving. The result seemed a lil weird so he did it again and this time 11 sepoy survived. That is just honestly broken how much better sepoy are compared to every other musket unit.

Ps. I realize this isnt flawless science considering we really only did 1 trial for each fight and didnt even bother to count total hp remaining for a more accurate count of what units survived but it is still pretty crazy. My question is still the same tho, just why are they so strong lol
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Re: Can someone explain why sepoy so op

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Post by WickedCossack »

Now don't get me wrong ... the sepoy is insanely strong ... but that's not a test of anything. You'd get more useful information by throwing a cabbage and seeing how many umbrellas in your vision you can count before it lands. (For the record if you count three or more umbrellas the sepoy is indeed the strongest unit.)
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Re: Can someone explain why sepoy so op

Post by forgrin »

They are strong in early/mid colonial and in some other niche situations, but overall they're still a musk unit. Something to consider is that ashi, tomo, jan, and musk (for several civs) have upgrade cards in colonial for these units, while India only has Brit Consulate HP, meaning that most other musks catch up in cost effectiveness.

So yeah, they are the strongest base musket unit, but with upgrade cards less so and their unit typing makes them less relevant as the game goes on (especially in age 3+, where skirms destroy them).
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Re: Can someone explain why sepoy so op

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Post by Jaeger »

You shouldn't do 20 of each musk, you should make the number according to their cost. For example 20 normal musks cost 2000 resources, while you may be able to make only 15-18 sepoys with that amount of resources (not sure about the numbers).
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Re: Can someone explain why sepoy so op

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

are sepoy really best best musket though? without mansabar jans actually win a 1v1 fight by 1 hit. Fully upgraded and all c ards Ashi should win with all the bonuses, and for cost fully upgraded port or brit muskets are much easier to field

Sepoy do have a great hand attack though.
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Re: Can someone explain why sepoy so op

Post by cedarfarms »

im not really talking about the best musket overall just really hand combat, and ovi i agree about cost being a factor obviously but like i said it was just a quick little experiment which obviously could have been done much more thoroughly but still the results are pretty mindblowing imo
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Re: Can someone explain why sepoy so op

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Post by fei123456 »

The new boss of microsoft is Indian, so....
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Re: Can someone explain why sepoy so op

Post by momuuu »

Sepoys have good stats yeah. I kinda like how their hp allocation makes aggression as india more viable compared to some other civs.
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Re: Can someone explain why sepoy so op

Post by Jaeger »

howlingwolfpaw wrote:are sepoy really best best musket though? without mansabar jans actually win a 1v1 fight by 1 hit. Fully upgraded and all c ards Ashi should win with all the bonuses, and for cost fully upgraded port or brit muskets are much easier to field

Sepoy do have a great hand attack though.

I think I would prefer sepoy over jans. The extra multiplier is really big, and in general I would prefare more attack than more hp.
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Re: Can someone explain why sepoy so op

Post by deleted_user0 »

WHY HATAMOTO SO OP. I DID 20 HATAMOTO VS 32 COSSACK AND NONE DIED?!! THEN I DID 20 HATAMOTO VS 32 MAMELUKES AND STILL NONE DIED?!!?!?!?

but ye :P as ovi said, you should consider the price of the unit as well. And sepoy are indeed very strong in age2, but get weaker as time goes on because they have only 1 upgrade card + brit consulate + mansadabar but the all these upgrades give only 10% while most upgrades of other civ give 15% (brits/ports have 3 + arsenal + royal guard, tomahawks have 4 upgrades + warchief, ashi have 2 cards + arsenal + consulate + pavilion + daimyo/shogun)
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Re: Can someone explain why sepoy so op

Post by cedarfarms »

no no i agree umeu, i dont think sepoy are the best musket but the way they butcher cav is just kind of absurd like untouched age 2 sepoy do 45 damage a swing
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Re: Can someone explain why sepoy so op

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Post by Hazza54321 »

because sepoy are the most broken age 2 unit after abus
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Re: Can someone explain why sepoy so op

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Post by deleted_user0 »

Hazza54321 wrote:because sepoy are the most broken age 2 unit after abus


maybe so but abus are most broken age2 unit only after bow riders, yumi and 3 hussar first.
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Re: Can someone explain why sepoy so op

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

ovi12 wrote:
howlingwolfpaw wrote:are sepoy really best best musket though? without mansabar jans actually win a 1v1 fight by 1 hit. Fully upgraded and all c ards Ashi should win with all the bonuses, and for cost fully upgraded port or brit muskets are much easier to field

Sepoy do have a great hand attack though.

I think I would prefer sepoy over jans. The extra multiplier is really big, and in general I would prefare more attack than more hp.



oh yeah i love the sepoy, one of the reasons I play india the most, they are the perfect musket in many respects.

I haven't done the math, but with the jans extra HP being able to sponge more attacks from cav there fore being able to deal out more hits might be pretty comparable to the amount of total damage a unit can do. Sort of like how ERK don'y deal out as much dmg per sec as skirms but because they are also harder to kill actually do about the same damage. Killing things faster though is a stacking advantage, its partly why 1 abus is so much better than 2 skirms, because of the concentrated fire power.
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Re: Can someone explain why sepoy so op

Post by deleted_user0 »

not sure why you compare ERK to skirms though, but ERK both have more HP than skirs and do more base damage, because they have a 1.5 rof, compared to skirm 3.0. They however also cost almost 1.5x more than a skir.
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Re: Can someone explain why sepoy so op

Post by r4go »

umeu wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:because sepoy are the most broken age 2 unit after abus


maybe so but abus are most broken age2 unit only after bow riders, yumi and 3 hussar first.

agree
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Re: Can someone explain why sepoy so op

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

ERK do a decent job of filling in the roll of skrims vs HI. Skirms do more damage to HI, but also are killed faster by them. So it actually equals out that a ERK does about the same damage to HI as skirm would but also reks cav which a skirm can not do. Just showing how units with more HP can deal out more damage than it seems. If jans had 3x and the same attack as musket they would be much more deadly to cav, which is why I think the designers gave them a bigger base attack but less multipliers vs cav. Not trying to make this thread about ERK though!
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Re: Can someone explain why sepoy so op

Post by r4go »

i'm using india (bad) 1v1 and yes, i'm agree sepoy and india units are very op (like all asian civs units)
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Re: Can someone explain why sepoy so op

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

I think for the cost they are well balanced. its not like india can mass them like other civs can
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Re: Can someone explain why sepoy so op

Post by deleted_user0 »

howlingwolfpaw wrote:ERK do a decent job of filling in the roll of skrims vs HI. Skirms do more damage to HI, but also are killed faster by them. So it actually equals out that a ERK does about the same damage to HI as skirm would but also reks cav which a skirm can not do. Just showing how units with more HP can deal out more damage than it seems. If jans had 3x and the same attack as musket they would be much more deadly to cav, which is why I think the designers gave them a bigger base attack but less multipliers vs cav. Not trying to make this thread about ERK though!


i guess you are maybe talking about treaty, but in supremacy skirms shouldnt die faster to HI because they have 18-22 range while ERK have only 12. But you are right about the attack vs hp thing, for melee units they generally want to have more hp than attack, as mam vs hackapells show. However for ranged units, it's usually the other way around. But musketeers are kinda in between, and for them HP is probably a bit more important in the end (highlanders vs fusiliers)
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Re: Can someone explain why sepoy so op

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

ERK get up to 16 range with card. But im not configuring range into account because thats primarily for group of unit scenarios. If you walk 1 musket up to a skirm and fire the skrim gets off the first 1-2 hits then musket attacks, same for the ERK. after so many hits each would theoretically die even though the muskets will always die first. So basically because a skirm has like 100 less HP than a ERK it dies quicker than a ERk, even to musket fire.
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Re: Can someone explain why sepoy so op

Post by Jaeger »

umeu wrote:
howlingwolfpaw wrote:ERK do a decent job of filling in the roll of skrims vs HI. Skirms do more damage to HI, but also are killed faster by them. So it actually equals out that a ERK does about the same damage to HI as skirm would but also reks cav which a skirm can not do. Just showing how units with more HP can deal out more damage than it seems. If jans had 3x and the same attack as musket they would be much more deadly to cav, which is why I think the designers gave them a bigger base attack but less multipliers vs cav. Not trying to make this thread about ERK though!


i guess you are maybe talking about treaty, but in supremacy skirms shouldnt die faster to HI because they have 18-22 range while ERK have only 12. But you are right about the attack vs hp thing, for melee units they generally want to have more hp than attack, as mam vs hackapells show. However for ranged units, it's usually the other way around. But musketeers are kinda in between, and for them HP is probably a bit more important in the end (highlanders vs fusiliers)

I don't think its fair to compare highlanders vs fusiliers, because fusiliers probably have worse base stats to compensate for extra speed and multiplier vs goons.
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Re: Can someone explain why sepoy so op

Post by lordraphael »

umeu wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:because sepoy are the most broken age 2 unit after abus


maybe so but abus are most broken age2 unit only after bow riders, yumi and 3 hussar first.

this serious ? :) I dont think ive ever lost a game due to 3 huss first. Also how can 3 huss be lamer than 5 coss
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Re: Can someone explain why sepoy so op

Post by lordraphael »

howlingwolfpaw wrote:ERK get up to 16 range with card. But im not configuring range into account because thats primarily for group of unit scenarios. If you walk 1 musket up to a skirm and fire the skrim gets off the first 1-2 hits then musket attacks, same for the ERK. after so many hits each would theoretically die even though the muskets will always die first. So basically because a skirm has like 100 less HP than a ERK it dies quicker than a ERk, even to musket fire.

Skirms can kite ERK dont. Skirms deal way better with HI than ERK.
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: Can someone explain why sepoy so op

Post by Mitoe »

Musketeer-type units are overrated!

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