Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

Zhanson10 wrote:6. India artillery elephants are not hard countered by culverins. Siege elephants can fuck up every civ's buildings and artillery and ships, unless those civs have enough goons and skirms to dps the siege ele. Which is incredibly difficult if india has an army to protect their elephants.

Please tell me this is a joke. On RE they are RC. You can literally destroy them with Skirms and any melee unit. They have bad artillery in the game. Not to mention they have to pay resources for their art shipments!
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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

Post by deleted_user0 »

poor guy, been using muskets and skirs to counter urumi, and doesnt get why they have no counters :O
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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

Post by momuuu »

Zhanson10 wrote:1. Sepoys are stupid good. Too strong for their cost. Especially because it's an age 2 unit, which leads to the second point.
2. India is the only civ that has all unit types in age 2. How is it balanced when a civ has goons and skirms in the second age?
3. Zambs and sowars are virtually indentical. For someone who uses control groups, this makes it easy to control the units. However, India's opponent must somehow target the skirms on the zambs and goons on the sowars, even though it is nearly impossible to do so when armies are clumped together and the two different unit types look identical.
4. Urumi are broken units with no counter. Aren't skirms supposed to counter infantry? Not if it's Urumi. Aren't musks supposed to to pretty well vs hand infantry? LOL have fun with that!
5. India doesn't have to shell out 800w for plantations. It can spend 400 wood for what is both a mill and a plantation all in one. It's incredibly lame!
6. India artillery elephants are not hard countered by culverins. Siege elephants can fuck up every civ's buildings and artillery and ships, unless those civs have enough goons and skirms to dps the siege ele. Which is incredibly difficult if india has an army to protect their elephants.
7. Like other Asian civs, India has a consulate and can train industrial units in age 2. WHY does india need redcoats in addition to all their other bonuses? Surely having 2 tanky scouts, a big powerful fb, and all the other lame advantages i mentioned would be enough. But no, India is a weak civ, youre right. Calling it top tier is clearly laughable.
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Point 1 and 2 are in a sense true, yes sepoy are really strong, especially vs TC fire. You can use the trick where you shoot them only twice with TC and finish off low hp sepoys with your explorer. They also do have all unit types, although sowars are honestly quite shitty. But they also have weaknesses. Their eco comes online really slowly, they're slow in general and as of yet there dont seem to be any great semi-ff/ff builds. Possibly because they dont have any good units that auto upgrade so they have to spend 900 res for veteran upgrades (or is it 1200 i dont remember).
3) I find it really easy to see the difference. You can mod unit skins anyways I think without crc mismatch.
4) you seem to not understand that urumis are countered by cav, theyre basically melee skirms. Good micro is really efficient vs them too, as long as they dont pop onto your army right from an agra.
5) yeah thats pretty good but generally isnt really relevant.
6) siege elephants are literally countered by culverins, hand cav, ranged cav, skirmishers and HI in melee mode. Theyre not that great.
7) consulate is a bonus, but again india also has weaknesses.

Just listing strong points of a civ doesnt mean theyre too strong. You can make the same sort of post for any civ.
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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

Post by forgrin »

Jerom wrote:
6) siege elephants are literally countered by culverins, hand cav, ranged cav, skirmishers and HI in melee mode. Theyre not that great.actually not countered by culv for whatever reason, they're basically just goons. Still really easy to kill with skirm though.
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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

Post by lemmings121 »

forgrin wrote:
Jerom wrote:
6) siege elephants are literally countered by culverins, hand cav, ranged cav, skirmishers and HI in melee mode. Theyre not that great.actually not countered by culv for whatever reason, they're basically just goons. Still really easy to kill with skirm though.


uhm, pretty sure siege ele also hav the "art" tag, making culvs have bonus agasint them

but as said, they are contered by skims, if someone shows up at you with 2 siege ele, just walk at 20 range with your skirms and kill both for free.

siege ele are only half decent vs ships where their speed helps a lot, for everything else they basically suck..
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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

Post by forgrin »

lemmings121 wrote:
forgrin wrote:
Jerom wrote:
6) siege elephants are literally countered by culverins, hand cav, ranged cav, skirmishers and HI in melee mode. Theyre not that great.actually not countered by culv for whatever reason, they're basically just goons. Still really easy to kill with skirm though.


uhm, pretty sure siege ele also hav the "art" tag, making culvs have bonus agasint them

but as said, they are contered by skims, if someone shows up at you with 2 siege ele, just walk at 20 range with your skirms and kill both for free.

siege ele are only half decent vs ships where their speed helps a lot, for everything else they basically suck..

I'm almost 100% sure culvs don't get bonus damage against them. Even if they do, siege ele also have cav typing iirc which makes the culv do 50% damage anyways.
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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

Post by Kaiserklein »

Pretty sure they don't have the artillery tag
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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

Post by momuuu »

So culvs are the only unit that dont counter them xd
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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

Post by thebritish »

Siege Elephants are Light Cavalry, Artillery, Elephant and Siege Elephants (unigue unit type) so skirms have 2.0x multiplier vs them, musketeers in melee have no bonus vs them and they are countered by culvs.
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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

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thebritish wrote:Siege Elephants are Light Cavalry, Artillery, Elephant and Siege Elephants (unigue unit type) so skirms have 2.0x multiplier vs them, musketeers in melee have no bonus vs them and they are countered by culvs.


wait, so they have the "light cav" tag but dont have the "cav" tag? so skirms have bonus vs them , but pikes wont have?

this thread is getting confusing. someone please check the tags.. x.x
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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

Post by fei123456 »

Sioux is the lamest civ ofc. They're playing aoe4, or a totally different game.
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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

Post by deleted_user0 »

Kaiserklein wrote:Pretty sure they don't have the artillery tag


they have it
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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

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lemmings121 wrote:
thebritish wrote:Siege Elephants are Light Cavalry, Artillery, Elephant and Siege Elephants (unigue unit type) so skirms have 2.0x multiplier vs them, musketeers in melee have no bonus vs them and they are countered by culvs.


wait, so they have the "light cav" tag but dont have the "cav" tag? so skirms have bonus vs them , but pikes wont have?

this thread is getting confusing. someone please check the tags.. x.x

I Already checked them. They dont have the cav tag (abstractcavalry to be specific), so all units that counter specifically cavalry have no bonus vs siege elephants which means pikes will do 8 damage instead of 40 damage.
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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

Post by tedere12 »

Yea I got a bit confused cuz my culvs did quite a lot of damage vs them on treaty (still not enough to say they are a hard counter) even though I considered them cav
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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

Post by lemmings121 »

thebritish wrote:
lemmings121 wrote:
thebritish wrote:Siege Elephants are Light Cavalry, Artillery, Elephant and Siege Elephants (unigue unit type) so skirms have 2.0x multiplier vs them, musketeers in melee have no bonus vs them and they are countered by culvs.


wait, so they have the "light cav" tag but dont have the "cav" tag? so skirms have bonus vs them , but pikes wont have?

this thread is getting confusing. someone please check the tags.. x.x

I Already checked them. They dont have the cav tag (abstractcavalry to be specific), so all units that counter specifically cavalry have no bonus vs siege elephants which means pikes will do 8 damage instead of 40 damage.


so the negative multiplier of culvs vs cav doesnt apply and they deal full damage... yeah siege eles suck.
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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

Post by pecelot »

Is it so hard to open the game and check? :roll:
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tedere12 wrote:Yea I got a bit confused cuz my culvs did quite a lot of damage vs them on treaty (still not enough to say they are a hard counter) even though I considered them cav

On the Treaty Patch they no longer have the light cavalry tag, only artillery :!:
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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

Post by lemmings121 »

pecelot wrote:Is it so hard to open the game and check? :roll:


we are all at work, 'working' .....
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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

Post by pecelot »

Then you can wait until you post :flowers:
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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

Post by Zhanson10 »

I'll add that I've been playing India lately, and my opinion of the civ has not changed. I end up having way too much army in comparison to my opponent at every step of the game
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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

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Post by tedere12 »

you will end up being pr50
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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

Post by 666_X »

saying that urumi have no counter is a straight up lie... Artillery destroys them also do naginata elmeti lancers cuirs and mass melee cav... u can also kite them since they are melee units.
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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

Post by noissance »

umeu wrote:poor guy, been using muskets and skirs to counter urumi, and doesnt get why they have no counters :O

Ponies counter urumi
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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

Post by gibson »

666_X wrote:saying that urumi have no counter is a straight up lie... Artillery destroys them also do naginata elmeti lancers cuirs and mass melee cav... u can also kite them since they are melee units.
not even Lancer style units but any hand cav beat them bad lol.
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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

Post by forgrin »

Urumi lose to cav for several reasons that actually have almost nothing to do with multipliers.

1. Their main strength is overlapping splash damage. Cav bodyblocking denies this as cav are more spread out in formations by default, making urumi less effective.

2. They do ranged damage. Cav have ranged resist.

3. Urumi have ranged resist. Cav have hand damage.

4. Alot of the strength of urumi is in their multipliers, versus goons and HI at least. They have 0.75x vs cav.

The real strength of urumi is only really realised when combined with a strong composition as an engaging/snaring tool to backup your main army, at least in fortress. In Indus they can be abused a bit more due to the awesome shipments, but the 7 urumi is itself pretty weak.
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Re: Reasons why India is the lamest civ in the game, even worse than Sioux

Post by tedere12 »

urumi can do decent job vs cav

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