Why can tourney games only be casted/streamed by ESOC?

[_H2O]

SO whats gonna happen with GUA vs Samurai?? GuA streamed his own games on his channel but didnt advertise ESOC brand.. Is this ok? Or will the game be void and both players get disqualified?

Read this thread or read the rules.

Streaming first person in games that are not casted is okay.

Where is this stream? I am more interested in who won than the bait.

[Kaiserklein]

@Kaiserklein That is like having a coach beside you, which you do not oppose. No reason to have rules that cannot be enforced - it benefits cheaters only.

Its an online event. We cant have an admin standing behind the players. We can only have rules that are enforceable.

You are right on here

[Papist]

@ProjectW You need to chill out, and show a little bit more respect to the people who are organizing this tournament for you free of charge. You agreed to the rules when you signed up; it's petty and frankly a bit ridiculous for you to be complaining now.

Reign it in, and express your dissent in a more respectful way, or take it somewhere else.

[KINGofOsmane]

Though tbh if you stream first person with no delay it's really easy to get people in the chat to advise you

no way u find that out if somebody does that

[AraGun]

Its here @H2O_

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/138251718

[MCJim]

I think it's good that this discussion came up. I think we, the Media Team and ESOC staff, have to see this as an extra opportunity to explain the rules a little bit better as I listed them down here: viewtopic.php?f=237&t=10342

In this thread the following rules lead to a discussion:
- Only authorized ESOC Casters are allowed to cast an ESOC tournament match.
- Casted tournament games should be streamed on ESOCTV Twitch only. Please ask us if you want to stream it on your personal channel. This only applies for first person point of view.


I want to use this discussion to summarise all arguments being made in favor of the rules listed above.

 + ESOC Tournaments are a gift to YOU, the viewer. To guarantee the best quality for everyone, we want ESOC casters to cast official tournament matches.
 + People donate thousands of dollars to ESOC to see quality content. This makes it even more important to do our job right and to give these people (and even people that do not donate) the quality they asked for.
 + An ESOC caster stands for quality. You can trust this person. ESOC casters are lead and controlled by the Media Team.
 + We don't have things in hand if we let everyone randomly cast games everywhere. Is there a 2 minute delay? Is the caster secretly in a Skype conversation with a player? How can we check if every tournament match is played out following the rules? We can't be 100% sure. It is important to be sure with the largest price pool in history. We can be sure if ESOC casters are handling the cast on ESOCTV.
 + Removing these rules would encourage people to stream tournament games on their own channels. This will lead to confusion, less quality content on ESOCTV Twitch and YouTube. Keep in mind that any series that isn't casted on ESOCTV won't be on YouTube as well. This means less tournanent-promotion (and thus less AoE3-promotion) on YouTube and less income which we use to fund future ESOC events.

So... sticking to ESOCTV with ESOC certified casters is our goal. However, streaming first person games that are not casted/observed is allowed as it is impossible to cheat!

[subhanshu]

@_H2O Does have a point here! if by any chance, your stream quality isnt optimal for tournament- that might lead to a negative impression on new comers to aoe3 etc, so i think all they are asking from you in a previous video in which you casted and then you could be a member of casters!
i dont think if they are asking for much? @ProjectW

[QueenOfdestiny]

Or what if you start flirting with your girlfriend in the middl... nvm that is allowed.

Ups

[JakeyBoyTH]

@_H2O Does have a point here! if by any chance, your stream quality isnt optimal for tournament- that might lead to a negative impression on new comers to aoe3 etc, so i think all they are asking from you in a previous video in which you casted and then you could be a member of casters!
i dont think if they are asking for much? @ProjectW

MCJim summarises it best, but its hard to come across when both sides are pretty arrogant. The bottom line is:

1) You signed up for the tourney knowing the rules (I'm pretty sure you agree when you sign up) so you can't really go against them without resigning from the tournament.

2) It's annoying when all the media are in different places. (So streaming to ESOCTV is pretty much a must, or people who miss out will wait a while for the videos) It's just a lot easier when it's all in one place.

3) The tournament represents ESOC, so any impression you give will imply that is the opinion of ESOC.

[QueenOfdestiny]

@Kaiserklein That is like having a coach beside you, which you do not oppose. No reason to have rules that cannot be enforced - it benefits cheaters only.

Its an online event. We cant have an admin standing behind the players. We can only have rules that are enforceable.

You are right on here

I think it doesn't matter... You can also have someone on Skype who gives you advice or you share your screen or w/e... You can't to have a rule for everything! It's the same like there is no rule for lag... [spoiler=spoiler]I would have won! Even without a coach![/spoiler]

[Kaiserklein]

@Kaiserklein That is like having a coach beside you, which you do not oppose. No reason to have rules that cannot be enforced - it benefits cheaters only.

Its an online event. We cant have an admin standing behind the players. We can only have rules that are enforceable.

You are right on here

I think it doesn't matter... You can also have someone on Skype who gives you advice or you share your screen or w/e... You can't to have a rule for everything! It's the same like there is no rule for lag... [spoiler=spoiler]I would have won! Even without a coach![/spoiler]

A coach on skype is way different than a coach with spies.

[_H2O]

While I am explaining our position on a lot of these rules we are all listening to this feedback and thinking about what we can do better.

Just a general comment.

[QueenOfdestiny]

Where is it different?
You can share your screen, TeamViewer... Etc etc etc
Do you think it's cheating when someone is coaching you?
Like in a football game when the coach screaming some stuff... Isn't it the same?

[Garja]

well being coached is sort of cheating but you cant know that over internet games

[QueenOfdestiny]

well being coached is sort of cheating but you cant know that over internet games

So basically you say I'm cheating?

[Papist]

@queenofdestiny Cheating or not, it's not in the spirit of fair play. People expect to play against you and your skill set, not that of some coach of an unknown skill level.

[SoldieR]

If you are playing and someone is making decisions for you, yes you are cheating.

I honestly don't even know if I'm allowed to cast on my own channel atm, even though I am authorized.
What if someone is using esoctv, what if there is one series at random time of night but I'm there?

[spanky4ever]

I actually watched this game from the start!
Gua told Samurai that the game was being streamed in advance, and asked him to give it a few minutes "lag". I was very happy that he wanted to share it with us spectators. I dont think GUA had any benefit of it (he lost both games). AND we could only watch GUA perspective. Dont know how anyone could make this borderline cheating. If anyone had a benefit, it would B Samurai.
So, If you admins should find this to be somewhat beside the rules, I would want you to rule in Gua favor.
I really appreciated that he shared the experience with us

[kami_ryu]

My games go a lot better when mitoe is calling the shots.

[spanky4ever]

My games go a lot better when mitoe is calling the shots.

-----------------That is another issue though-----------
I know what your are referring 2, and I really enjoyed the games with Mitoe as a coach. Could B a way to go ahead with some streams; play and getting a better player to coach you - and us spectators getting the benefit of the same teaching. Was really fun Kami. There where no coaches in this game though

[JakeyBoyTH]

My games go a lot better when mitoe is calling the shots.

-----------------That is another issue though-----------
I know what your are referring 2, and I really enjoyed the games with Mitoe as a coach. Could B a way to go ahead with some streams; play and getting a better player to coach you - and us spectators getting the benefit of the same teaching. Was really fun Kami. There where no coaches in this game though

I coach Kami dw

[ProjectW]

Both players want it casted? Check.
Casters and streamers available? Check.
There's audience? Check.

I don't see a problem here..And why can't i say it's a tourney game and tell other people to come watch n enjoy and all have fun? Again why the fuck does ESOC rule makers have a dildo stuck up their behind they are acting like it's multi billion dollar corporation.

Man it's 1.5k prize pool, can't let people do whatever they want, obviously letting anyone cast a tourney game is not safe... The point of being an authorized caster is that they trust you. What if you maphack for one of the players or w/e ?

I just said "if both players agree and allow the caster" so your point about cheating/maphacking is moot.

[gibson]

Well if someone's casting they aren't gonna be on Skype talking with someone lol. And there's nothing about being an "authorized caster" that makes you less likely to help someone cheat anyway. It literally just has to do with whether or not you're decent at casting.

[Mitoe]

@gibson ESOC casters have a responsibility to check for map balance and make decisions for restarts or similar situations. These are people we have entrusted to enforce these rules unbiased. If you randomly have your friend cast your game, it's not just about whether he can give you information that the other player isn't privy to. You could agree beforehand that he will try to force restarts until you get your optimal start, or something similar.

Imagine a situation where someone got their friend to "cast" their game. But then that friend conveniently "forgets" to hit the start button in OBS, and simply gives his friend all the information he needs over Skype. When someone asks why the game wasn't streamed: "Oh, I thought I was connected but I guess I wasn't."

In addition to the reasons others have stated in this thread, restricting the people who can cast allows us to ensure a fair event for everyone. If an authorized caster did something like this and it became obvious they were providing assistance to one of the players, we could prevent them from casting games in the future.

These events are run off of donations, and we have a responsibility to maintain the integrity and quality of the event. Having auditions for casters and keeping all content in one place helps us avoid potential issues and makes everything easier for staff, players, and viewers.

[milku3459]

@gibson ESOC casters have a responsibility to check for map balance and make decisions for restarts or similar situations. These are people we have entrusted to enforce these rules unbiased. If you randomly have your friend cast your game, it's not just about whether he can give you information that the other player isn't privy to. You could agree beforehand that he will try to force restarts until you get your optimal start, or something similar.

Imagine a situation where someone got their friend to "cast" their game. But then that friend conveniently "forgets" to hit the start button in OBS, and simply gives his friend all the information he needs over Skype. When someone asks why the game wasn't streamed: "Oh, I thought I was connected but I guess I wasn't."

In addition to the reasons others have stated in this thread, restricting the people who can cast allows us to ensure a fair event for everyone. If an authorized caster did something like this and it became obvious they were providing assistance to one of the players, we could prevent them from casting games in the future.

These events are run off of donations, and we have a responsibility to maintain the integrity and quality of the event. Having auditions for casters and keeping all content in one place helps us avoid potential issues and makes everything easier for staff, players, and viewers.

I doubt it's very likely, but is very easy to pull off and undetectable.