WCG-style tournament

[deleted_user0]

A big difference I see here is that with the suggested format you would exclude some of the best players from countries like France, Germany, United Kingdom or United States, whereas in the Olympics you always have the very best represented, no matter where they come from — it's more about the 10th best from one country that can be better than the best from another country not being able to qualify, but it's not such a big deal. It would matter a lot in such a small community of ours. The way you could work on that is perhaps taking into account previous tournament achievements from each state and then distribute qualification places accordingly — just like in the football Champions League, where spots are provided based on the countries' past results. From Poland only masters can get into the 2nd round of elimination, whereas from England 3 teams qualify directly to group stages — to illustrate.

they wouldnt be excluded though, they compete earlier and decide earlier amongst each other who is the best. and what you say is true for some sports, other sports are allowed to send only one representative. in any case, ive already said that a CL system would also be a possibility, so we can keep going in circles here, but its not really that relevant.

[...] yet more people have said they like the idea than not, and many of them are not from brazil or china.

I would say it has received a rather mixed reception, and would look at arguments rather than popular vote. Some people may just support it because they want any ESOC event being organised.[/quote]

eh? 2/3rd more is not rather mixed, in a general election that would be considered a landslide victory. although im aware many people have not voted. that said, my statement remains correct, since you simply cannot deny that more people have said they like the idea than people who have said they disliked it, in the poll. i'm not saying you should organise it because more people voted in favor, it was simply an argument to refute gibsons comment.

[gibson]

Fair enough @deleted_user

[macacoalbino]

I would say it has received a rather mixed reception, and would look at arguments rather than popular vote. Some people may just support it because they want any ESOC event being organised.

Well at least the poll came from the whole sample, not from the assumption that ppl who didnt come here to comment would act according to something that you just came up with

[pecelot]

A big difference I see here is that with the suggested format you would exclude some of the best players from countries like France, Germany, United Kingdom or United States, whereas in the Olympics you always have the very best represented, no matter where they come from — it's more about the 10th best from one country that can be better than the best from another country not being able to qualify, but it's not such a big deal. It would matter a lot in such a small community of ours. The way you could work on that is perhaps taking into account previous tournament achievements from each state and then distribute qualification places accordingly — just like in the football Champions League, where spots are provided based on the countries' past results. From Poland only masters can get into the 2nd round of elimination, whereas from England 3 teams qualify directly to group stages — to illustrate.

they wouldnt be excluded though, they compete earlier and decide earlier amongst each other who is the best. and what you say is true for some sports, other sports are allowed to send only one representative. in any case, ive already said that a CL system would also be a possibility, so we can keep going in circles here, but its not really that relevant.

[...] yet more people have said they like the idea than not, and many of them are not from brazil or china.

I would say it has received a rather mixed reception, and would look at arguments rather than popular vote. Some people may just support it because they want any ESOC event being organised.

eh? 2/3rd more is not rather mixed, in a general election that would be considered a landslide victory. although im aware many people have not voted. that said, my statement remains correct, since you simply cannot deny that more people have said they like the idea than people who have said they disliked it, in the poll. i'm not saying you should organise it because more people voted in favor, it was simply an argument to refute gibsons comment.

No one would really care about eliminations, the main event is what matters. In that way you would just close the door for quite a few top players.

Like I said, I'd really look on arguments, not votes. The latter doesn't really tell much.

[_H2O]

nice way to say you will not pursuit it (despite popular support) XD you should be a politician.

anyway, fair enough.

Well I meant what I said. As it stands its just a forum post someone wrote up in <15 minutes. All I can commit to is considering it as a stop gap event that would be a shorter duration event.

Its a lot easier to say yes to something if you don't have to do it!

[deleted_user0]

Like I said, I'd really look on arguments, not votes. The latter doesn't really tell much.

it is part of the main event, your argument is kinda like saying people wont play in ro64 or 32 because they wont make it to ro4 anyway... its just not correct.

[macacoalbino]

Pezet, youre just pulling arguments from nowhere tbh... Would you not watch england, usa or france quilifiers for example?

[pecelot]

I would. Would you watch LordRaphael vs H2O in RO128? You would. But that's not ideal, right?

[rsy]

I would. Would you watch LordRaphael vs H2O in RO128? You would. But that's not ideal, right?

I don't think the point of this tournament is skill per se, but rather skill by country. It's like seeing who's the best American player and matching him up with the best German player. Ofc we have other main tournaments that last two months to see who's the most skilled players overall still and this is just kind of a filler tournament.

[pecelot]

Sure, I just don't really see too much value competitively in it. But heck, as a filler it'll certainly do. Like I said, I enjoyed Strong World, and in my opinion one of the main reasons it failed was the awkward team forward, which would not be present here — I assume.

[deleted_user0]

well, wcg had competitive value, and people didnt complain much about it, though the game was more alive. i understand that. but ye anyway i never meant it as a main event.

[macacoalbino]

I would. Would you watch LordRaphael vs H2O in RO128? You would. But that's not ideal, right?

Thats not a good comparison...
A qualifier final is more important than the first game in the main event by far. And it does create hype since you know a top player will be facing elimination at that point

[pecelot]

Enlighten me then how it's not a good example. In ASC format every game is crucial since you battle for survival.

[__Uhlan__]

You act like normal tournies doesn't have top players enlimated earlier then they should also, and like it doesn't have subpar players in ro16+ due to seeding lol. Come on this tournies brackets were a mess and people are watching it, I think this is a good idea would be fun imo. See who is the best active player in each country and have them battle just for fun doesn't have to be a huge thing 1-2 day event with a small prize pool 50-100$?

[macacoalbino]

Firstly because in ro128 its impossible that they cross each other.
Secondly winning a country's qualifier is already a title in itself (the best from brazil, france, etc), while winning a RO128 series means just moving on to another nameless round.

Ps: The winner of the qualifier will be going into this sort of champions league which is also worth a lot more than just reaching RO64

[Jjtuxtron]

Thought it was a fun idea- "I liked it"- can I represent kekistan?

Shadilay, my dude.

[momuuu]

I dont really see the added value of this tbh.

[rsy]

I dont really see the added value of this tbh.

Did u read what macaco said? I am sure u will see at least some value when you do...also what's the problem with having another tourney especially if umeu says he'll do the organization? It's just more competition and more fun!

[_H2O]

I don't think we need to debate deeply the merits of this. I need to go think through how we can add this idea to some of our smaller events plan to see how we can do it.

Any resistance you are seeing from the esoc team is because we know it takes a lot to run these events and want to make sure we are putting our limited efforts into the best formats for events.

Let's go under the assumption this is a good idea and discuss more about what we would want to see and how we would make rules/ organize seeding etc. those ideas are helpful.

[macacoalbino]

I understand the pain of organizing such events, I've been part of a small tourney with brazilian players only.
Whats annoying is that a part of the staff who is againt it won't show any effort to understand the other side of the discussion.

[pecelot]

You act like normal tournies doesn't have top players enlimated earlier then they should also, and like it doesn't have subpar players in ro16+ due to seeding lol. Come on this tournies brackets were a mess and people are watching it, I think this is a good idea would be fun imo.

So why did we have the very best people in the previous finals? H2O vs BSOP & Raphael, Samwise vs Acergame, even now it can be Raphael vs BSOP.

Firstly because in ro128 its impossible that they cross each other.

That's thanks to the format.

[lemmings121]

You act like normal tournies doesn't have top players enlimated earlier then they should also, and like it doesn't have subpar players in ro16+ due to seeding lol. Come on this tournies brackets were a mess and people are watching it, I think this is a good idea would be fun imo.

So why did we have the very best people in the previous finals? H2O vs BSOP & Raphael, Samwise vs Acergame, even now it can be Raphael vs BSOP.

Firstly because in ro128 its impossible that they cross each other.

That's thanks to the format.

and how that cant the be the case again?
we will probably have 32 groups, thats 32 players, seed them and start a elimination bracket.
yes, some of the good players will be out in the group round, but by ro16 that wont matter anymore.

and following the group stage games of a group like usa, china, fr, will be pretty fun.

[macacoalbino]

@pecelot yes but can you understand that those are not the same thing?

[_H2O]

Rather than arguing about whether bad matchups can happen or not. Let's talk about how to make it not happen. That's really what we are going for here.

[pecelot]

@pecelot yes but can you understand that those are not the same thing?

Of course, but I'm not sure then what your post was on about.